# General counsel for Hillary's campaign announces that the campaign will participate in recounts. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 26, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068 "2016-11-26T18:19:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/101 "2016-11-30T18:39:26Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I understand it’s fun to poke the “liberals” but could we stop bullshitting? You know perfectly well Hillary is not raising funds for the recount. So maybe, stop saying that? Hillary might not be holding an official recount fundraiser dinner, but what does it mean if her campaign is supporting Stein’s recount efforts? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/102 "2016-11-30T19:08:28Z")
If her campaign is supporting the recount financially then they’ll have to report it. It would be mighty strange to deny they are when the truth will be out very shortly. Frankly, it would be kind of weird imho for her campaign not to send observers. It’s not like she can angrily denounce a perfectly legal request for a recount - they were inundated with calls to initiate one themselves. So while they didn’t think it was prudent to do so, now that Stein got the ball rolling they’ll keep an eye on it. Not really supporting it except “in principle” i.e. “well you’re allowed to ask for one”. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/103 "2016-11-30T20:14:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think the fact that Trump won the Republican Party’s nomination this year, over the strenuous objections of most conservative leaders, pretty much disproves this … theory. The primary voters found a candidate who appealed to their lizard-brains, as did many of the Republican voters. The other Republican voters voted Republican because they _always_ vote Republican. If you or anyone wants to suggest that someone had a good solid line of reasoning to vote for Trump, first you’d have to demonstrate that there _is_ a good solid line of reasoning to vote for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/104 "2016-11-30T20:32:31Z")
Is there some burning reason this thread has to be turned into yet another “Trump voters r teh stupid” thread? It’s about the Clinton campaign sending observers to a Stein initiated recount. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/105 "2016-11-30T20:35:02Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Is there some burning reason this thread has to be turned into yet another “Trump voters r teh stupid” thread? It’s about the Clinton campaign sending observers to a Stein initiated recount. Well every thread about Donald for the last year has been hijacked by the anti-Hillary crowd to pile on her any chance they could, so it seems fair. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/106 "2016-11-30T20:38:07Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > Well every thread about Donald for the last year has been hijacked by the anti-Hillary crowd to pile on her any chance they could, so it seems fair. Seems lame, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/107 "2016-11-30T20:40:23Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Is there some burning reason this thread has to be turned into yet another “Trump voters r teh stupid” thread? It’s about the Clinton campaign sending observers to a Stein initiated recount. Okay. Now explain why, _without invoking stupidity,_ anyone would object to this? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/108 "2016-11-30T20:53:46Z")
Because it’s a hopeless waste of time and money? Because rational people have accepted the results and would like to move on with the reality of the situation? Clinton sending observers seems to legitimize said time wasting and reality denying? I personally think the recount is silly but Hillary sending observers rather an obvious thing to do. But I see no reason to turn this thread into yet another Trump voter bashing thread. Obviously bringing up Trumps stupid tweets about voter fraud is within reason but his voters’ lizard brains, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/109 "2016-11-30T21:05:24Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Because it’s a hopeless waste of time and money? Because rational people have accepted the results and would like to move on with the reality of the situation? Clinton sending observers seems to legitimize said time wasting and reality denying? So? Is it _your_ time or money that’s being wasted? The people doing the job don’t seem to feel their time is being wasted, and the people donating to pay for the job don’t seem to feel their money is being wasted. Maybe the government officials who have to act on the recount request feel their time is being wasted but too bad, they’re public servants and citizens have made a legal request and paid the appropriate fees, so do your jobs or resign. But, sure, express your opinion. Cool. And someone might express their opinion _of_ your opinion. Just as cool. Trump expressed _his_ opinion and some of his supporters chimed in with theirs. Cool. Some of us are giving our opinions of those opinions. Not cool? In your opinion, I guess, but that’s cool. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/110 "2016-11-30T21:14:40Z")
Uh huh. And how is any of that related to > [@](#): > > If you or anyone wants to suggest that someone had a good solid line of reasoning to vote for Trump, first you’d have to demonstrate that there is a good solid line of reasoning to vote for Trump. ? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/111 "2016-11-30T21:46:12Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Uh huh. And how is any of that related to > > ? Well, once the “Trump voters are stupid” ball got rolling in this thread, it seemed like an obvious enough inquiry - in what way, if any, was voting for Trump _not_ stupid? If you don’t feel it a question worth posing or answering, good for you. I suggest you report this conversation to a moderator and ask for a ruling on whether or not it constitutes a hijack. Meantime, I don’t see a problem with election results being examined or audited and evidently various state governments don’t either since they have laws describing how such examinations should occur. I’m frankly a tad skittish about the notion of computerized voting in general, if the software is treated like a trade secret. Making it open-source would likely uncover bugs and exploits in rapid order, letting them be fixed. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/112 "2016-11-30T22:27:37Z")
You’re aware that the two states that Stein is likely to get a recount in, MI & WI, do not have “computerized voting” in the sense you’re speaking? Michigan is paper ballots and Wisconsin is optical scan of paper. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/113 "2016-11-30T22:43:08Z")
So…? Perhaps I should have put a break in that last paragraph, separating the concept of an audit from my personal opinion about computerized voting, but still… so? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/114 "2016-11-30T23:09:55Z")
So… it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Otherwise, of course black box voting machines without paper trails is a troubling path. If that was Stein’s worry she should have gotten her shit together a week or two ago to challenge the PA results. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/115 "2016-11-30T23:27:48Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > You’re aware that the two states that Stein is likely to get a recount in, MI & WI, do not have “computerized voting” in the sense you’re speaking? Michigan is paper ballots and Wisconsin is optical scan of paper. In Wisconsin at least, there are two types of systems decided at the precinct level, optical scan of paper ballots and direct electronic recording (with paper receipt). Part of what people are pointing to as discrepancies are that Hillary received 7% fewer votes in precincts that rely on the direct electronic recording. Others, like Nate Silver, have said that can be explained by studying the demographics. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/116 "2016-12-01T00:16:29Z")
The Pew Research page on voting methods seems to show most of Wisconsin is a mix of paper/optical scan. > **[On Election Day, most voters use electronic or optical-scan ballots](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/08/on-election-day-most-voters-use-electronic-or-optical-scan-ballots/)** > > The two most common voting technologies in the U.S. today are "fill-in-the-bubble" and other optical-scan ballots, and touch-screen computers and other direct recording electronic systems. I have seen a couple of news articles mention DER voting in a few Wisconsin counties but not that it was common. Do you have a cite for that? ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/117 "2016-12-01T03:37:08Z")
Yeah. Mostly paper/optical scan. It’s not like there is a big difference between paper ballots fed into scanners and DREs with receipts. The DREs and the scanners will be running not so dissimilar software. [Here](http://elections.wi.gov/elections-voting/voting-equipment/voting-equipment-use) is way too much detail on the equipment in Wisconsin counties. At the very least it shows the daunting logistics of trying to swing an election with voting machine corruption. You would have to choose very carefully where to focus your efforts as each precinct (municipality in this case) would require its own malicious corruption campaign. All the ones marked Dominion (Sequoia)/Command Central-Edge are DREs. The ones marked Dominion ImageCast Evolution seem to have some sort of optional touchscreen voting mode as a voter accessibility solution. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/118 "2016-12-01T03:53:33Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > So… it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. It’s cool how worried you area about people drifting from the thread topic, CarnalK! I appreciate how you haven’t posted over and over and over about your worries and thereby contributed to a drift in thread topic about drifts in thread topic, because that would be ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/119 "2016-12-01T04:32:56Z")
I always stay on message in threads about thread drift. One time I put my old grandpa on an ice floe and let him drift away from a thread about thread drift. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068/120 "2016-12-01T07:59:20Z")
Stir it up and hope the EC people can finish the job … has been in someone’s private email message box. I wonder what Trumps supporters would’ve contested? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-counsel-for-hillarys-campaign-announces-that-the-campaign-will-participate-in-recounts/773068.md?page=5)