# General Custer and the Little Bighorn Disaster: Were The Deat Mutilated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 4, 2005, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994 "2005-03-04T23:23:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/1 "2005-03-04T23:23:34Z")
I’ve been doing some reading about the 1877 disaster. General Custer and hs entire command were killed-only an Indian guide survived. My question is, were the bodies of the dead mutilated? It seems to me that the battlefield was only visted afte several weeks had elapsed-by that time, most of the human remains were just bones. I also read that Custer’s head was taken by the indians-how did they identify the bodies? Anybody ever been to the battlefield site? Is it worth a visit? Custer’s widow lived until 1930 or so-was her husband ever given any posthumous decorations? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/2 "2005-03-04T23:27:45Z")
Yes, the bodies were mutilated. General Terry’s group found the bodies two days later. Custer’s head was attached to his body when found. The battlefield is definately worth a visit, if only to impress on you how small the entire area is. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/3 "2005-03-04T23:36:11Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Yes, the bodies were mutilated. General Terry’s group found the bodies two days later. Custer’s head was attached to his body when found. The battlefield is definately worth a visit, if only to impress on you how small the entire area is. And the “entire command” was not killed. About half of the regiment were separated from Custer’s immediate vicinity under two commands, those of Major Reno and Captain Benteen. In addition to being a small area there is to me a sense of melancholy to think of all those people killed for no reason when Gens. Crook and Terry were not all that far away and could have been brought up to do the job if Custer hadn’t been so rash. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/4 "2005-03-04T23:40:23Z")
Standing on the ridge at Last Stand Hill is a very moving experience. You can trace the movements of each group by following the line of markers. From the ridge you can see where Reno and Benteen’s groups were under attack and pinned down. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2005, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/5 "2005-03-04T23:52:22Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Standing on the ridge at Last Stand Hill is a very moving experience. You can trace the movements of each group by following the line of markers. From the ridge you can see where Reno and Benteen’s groups were under attack and pinned down. It appears that command and control broke down pretty badly in that most of the officers bodies were found up on the hill around Custer as if they had finally just taken off looking for any safe place. And I think the latest archaeology shows that the actual final battle was during the flight of the remnants of the command in a ravine down the hill toward the Little Big Horn river. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/6 "2005-03-05T00:11:03Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > In addition to being a small area there is to me a sense of melancholy to think of all those people killed for no reason when Gens. Crook and Terry were not all that far away and could have been brought up to do the job if Custer hadn’t been so rash. Well…but in this case, _other_ people would have been killed for no reason, so I can’t see a difference (actually, since I tend to think the “bad guys” lost this battle, it would have been worst imHo) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/7 "2005-03-05T00:24:19Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > And I think the latest archaeology shows that the actual final battle was during the flight of the remnants of the command in a ravine down the hill toward the Little Big Horn river. Yep. You can turn around and look down the ravine where the last survivors fled from Gall’s assault. The tactics used by the Sioux were perfect for the terrain. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/8 "2005-03-05T00:31:35Z")
From [this article](http://www.friendslittlebighorn.com/Smithsonian%20Coverage.htm) > [@](#): > > Custer was not killed by arrows. According to Lieutenant Godfrey, "He had been shot in the left temple and left breast. “There were no powder marks or signs of mutilation.” This emphasis on the lack of powder burns and mutilation was meant to dispel rumors that Custer had committed suicide and had been horribly mangled by the Indians. We’ll never know for sure, but it must be kept in mind that the Indians did not know whom they were fighting, and that any mutilation would have been a random thing. Most of the dead troopers, some 212, found with Custer, were mutilated, however, for Plains Indians believed that an enemy arrived in the spirit world in the same physical condition he left this one, and so the dismembering of the freshly killed implied a special vindictiveness. > > Aside from scalping and the shooting of bullets and arrows into the bodies by the warriors themselves, most ritual mutilation was done by women who had lost family relatives in recent combat. It should be remembered, however, that mutilation was also practiced by whites against the Indians, most notably at the [Sand Creek Massacre](http://www.nps.gov/foda/Fort_Davis_WEB_PAGE/About_the_Fort/Sand_Creek.htm) > [@](#): > > In one of the most sordid affairs between whites and American Indians, more than 200 Cheyennes, mainly women and children, lay dead following Col. John M. Chivington’s destruction of Black Kettle’s Southern Cheyenne village nestled along Sand Creek in southeastern Colorado, on November 29, 1864. The Chivington massacre included the mutilation of Indians, including severed genitals. Black Kettle’s village had camped near Fort Lyon with the understanding that they were friendly, an American flag flew from the village. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/9 "2005-03-05T00:39:21Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I’ve been doing some reading about the 1877 disaster. Disaster? If you look at it the right way, it was a magnificent victory. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/10 "2005-03-05T01:40:01Z")
Although the post-battle mutilation was done by the women, while the warriors were still in battle rage, they performed acts such as propping up the naked bodies of the troopers on all fours and shooting their buttocks full of arrows. (Using a corpse’s asshole as a bullseye is rather common in military culture) According to something I read, Custer (a distant relative of mine, BTW) had his eardrums pierced postmotem by sewing awls so that in the next life he would no longer be deaf to the warnings he’d ignored. This was also in the TV movie in which he was protrayed by Gary Cole (“Yeah, I’m gonna need you to come in Saturday and wipe out the Indian village. That’d be supper, yeah.”) ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/11 "2005-03-05T01:58:41Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Well…but in this case, _other_ people would have been killed for no reason, so I can’t see a difference (actually, since I tend to think the “bad guys” lost this battle, it would have been worst imHo) There is very little that is admirable in the US treatment of the indigenous population. However, most of Custer’s troopers were relatively uneducated, recent immigrants who had little say in national policy, to put it mildly. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/12 "2005-03-05T02:13:08Z")
Although George Armstrong Custer was not mutilated (or if so very little), his brother Thomas Ward Custer was particularly badly treated, being scalped, brained, castrated, and having his heart cut out. His body was only identified by his tattoos. It is not certain why this was done, since the Indians almost certainly didn’t know who he was. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/13 "2005-03-05T02:13:48Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I’ve been doing some reading about the 1877 disaster. Nitpick: it was June 25, 187 **6**. There is some evidence that Custer was hoping the news of his great “victory” would arrive in most newspapers on the nation’s Centennial the next week. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/14 "2005-03-05T02:26:57Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Nitpick: it was June 25, 187 **6**. There is some evidence that Custer was hoping the news of his great “victory” would arrive in most newspapers on the nation’s Centennial the next week. Custer was a good cavalry general during the Civil War when he had Phillip Sheridan to plan the operations. At this remove in time his battle plan was bordering on comical. He divided his command sending Benteen easterly down the ridge along the river. Then when he spotted the indian camp in the valley he again divided his command sending Reno with a force of **50** down to the river to drive the indians into his, Custer’s, “encirclement” which was supposed to take place by him taking the main force along the ridge to the west. I think estimates of the size of the encampment were somewhere in the neighborhood of 5000. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/15 "2005-03-05T02:48:26Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Nitpick: it was June 25, 187 **6**. There is some evidence that Custer was hoping the news of his great “victory” would arrive in most newspapers on the nation’s Centennial the next week. Instead it put something of a damper on the festivities. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/16 "2005-03-05T02:53:26Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > neighborhood of 5000. Custer had grown up on Monroe Michigan, infused with the memories of the Indian Wars of the Old Northwest of the previous generation. Monroe is only a few miles the site of the battle of Fallen Timbers, undertaken by “Mad” Anthony Wayne: a soldier who knew what he was doing when fighting natives. The Indians sought natural fortification in a stand of trees felled by a tornado and, sensibly fearing peritonitis from infected gut wounds, stopped eating. Wayne stalled the attack for three days, knowing the Indians would be weakened from fasting, then went in and shot them like quail. Stupidy, Custer took this to mean that Indians could always be outsmarted. Since boyhood, all Custer wanted to do was to fight Indians, but he won his spurs fighting white men. Compared to his 18th century heroes, his own actual experience fighting Indians was pretty weak, “outsmarting” them at the Washita by atacking them in winter camp. Overall, in his defense, his tactics at Littel Bighorn were sound: both the French and British were also adopting the “flying column” tactic of heading off native opponents who were less well-equiped but therefore more mobile. The idea was to hit them before they could disperse. but this only worked when one had adequate numbers for the task, which Custer, the Italians at Adowa in Ethiopia, or the British at Isandalwana all overestimated. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/17 "2005-03-05T03:38:27Z")
They weren’t mutilated just for the sake of mutilation. The Sioux believed that shape the body was in at death was how it went to the next world. A damaged body would be damaged the next time they fought in the next world. ---
**Author:** ![chukhung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@chukhung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chukhung)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/18 "2005-03-05T03:48:23Z")
In Evan S Connell’s book [Son of the Morning Star](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0865475105/qid=1109994774/sr=8-3/ref=pd_csp_3/104-4636599-7424769?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) it says > [@](#): > > In 1927 a Northern Cheyenne woman, Kate Bighead, told Dr. Thomas Marquis about the battle. She spoke in sign language, which Marquis had learned while working as a government doctor on the Cheyenne reservation. He transcribed the story she delivered with her hands. > … > [Kate Bighead] said two Southern Cheyenne women were at the Little Bighorn and when the fighting ended they went on the battlefield. They saw Custer. They knew him well. They had known him in Oklahoma. They recognized him even though his hair was short and his face was dirty. While they stood looking down at him a bunch of Sioux warriors came by…and cut off one of his fingertips. > … > Kate said these two women punctured Custer’s eardrums with a sewing awl. They did this to improve his hearing because he had not been able to hear what he was told in Oklahoma seven years before. When he smoked a pipe with Medicine Arrow and Little Robe they told him if he broke his promise and again made war on the Cheyennes he would be killed. It’s a second-hand account, delivered 50 years after the fact through a sign language interpreter. I’m not sure how much I would trust it. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/19 "2005-03-05T05:01:26Z")
> [@Slithy Tove](#): > > Overall, in his defense, his tactics at Littel Bighorn were sound: both the French and British were also adopting the “flying column” tactic of heading off native opponents who were less well-equiped but therefore more mobile. The idea was to hit them before they could disperse. but this only worked when one had adequate numbers for the task, which Custer, the Italians at Adowa in Ethiopia, or the British at Isandalwana all overestimated. Well, of course, the idea of either enveloping them by having Reno’s force drive them into Custer’s trap or Reno creating a noisy disturbance in one place while the main assault takes place elsewhere are both good tactics. But an essential part of good soldiering is having adequate intelligence about the size and disposition of the enemy, which Custer lacked, and having adequate forces plus a reserve for the job at hand, which Custer also lacked. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994/20 "2005-03-05T05:34:45Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Disaster? If you look at it the right way, it was a magnificent victory. IIRC, while white America called it the Custer Massacre, the opposing side calls it the Battle of the Greasy Grass. In fact, the Custer Battlefield National Monument is now known as the Little Big Horn Battlefield National Monument. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-custer-and-the-little-bighorn-disaster-were-the-deat-mutilated/292994.md?page=2)