# General US Attitude To Atheist Leader **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 10, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123 "2010-11-10T00:57:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/21 "2010-11-10T06:23:08Z")
That was my experience too. I was actually physically wary about telling people I was an atheist at times. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/22 "2010-11-10T06:28:14Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s a morality thing for the most part. Some religious people are fearful that someone who doesn’t share their beliefs will have a completely different moral compass, or even worse, none. Considering that the golden rule and most of the ten commandments are pretty universally accepted, this is a very provincial viewpoint. But that’s how it is, and I think it’s especially the case among people who have not encountered people from a lot of different backgrounds and religious viewpoints. Among Abrahamic religions, perhaps most of the ten commandments are pretty universally accepted (no surprise there). But apart from those? The prohibitions of murder and theft are of course quite universal, as must be the one on what I suppose is perjury. Disapproval of adultery is probably fairly widespread, and every parent feels entitled to their children’s respect. However, prohibitions on idolatry and restrictions on use of the Lord’s name seem not at all so widespread; similarly, I am unaware of universality of the religious concept of a sabbath day. Overall, it seems to me a mixed bag. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/23 "2010-11-10T07:05:33Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Among Abrahamic religions, perhaps most of the ten commandments are pretty universally accepted (no surprise there). But apart from those? The prohibitions of murder and theft are of course quite universal, as must be the one on what I suppose is perjury. Disapproval of adultery is probably fairly widespread, and every parent feels entitled to their children’s respect. However, prohibitions on idolatry and restrictions on use of the Lord’s name seem not at all so widespread; similarly, I am unaware of universality of the religious concept of a sabbath day. Overall, it seems to me a mixed bag. I guess it’s about half the commandments rather than “most.” It’s still a significant amount of common ground between people of different religions and people with none. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/24 "2010-11-10T07:12:21Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > I think we’re overstating the case here. While there’s a dedicated minority that ranks atheists as closer to Satan than the dreaded homos, for the most part being an ‘out’ atheist is not that bad and most people don’t really give a crap. The polls disagree. Last I recall Scientologists had just barely edged out atheists as most distrusted group in America after atheists spent some years at the top; Muslims were more popular, and we know how unpopular they are in America right now. Atheists are typically regarded as scum; as immoral, as traitors, as psychotic, as liars. The last especially by the believers who refuse to even believe in atheists and claims we are just lying. > [@fluiddruid](#): > > There aren’t massive hate crimes against atheists, nobody is beating down our doors. They can’t tell who we are most of the time. We don’t wear specific clothes, we don’t have any particular skin color, or gathering places they can firebomb. When they _can_ tell that’s when the harassment starts. Go put a “There is no God” bumper sticker on your car and see what happens to it. But don’t try it if you are fond of your car. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/25 "2010-11-10T07:49:06Z")
Here in University of Oregon Hippy Town on the left coast being an atheist is not noteworthy. In fact, I’m surprised when I meet people who are openly Christian. And there are scads of every sort of spiritual offshoots; the eastern religions, especially Buddhism, are well represented. I am certain that my friends and acquaintances know I am atheist, though I don’t recall any of them actually asking me about religion. Oh my lord how I would hate living in the rural south. I don’t think I could do it. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/26 "2010-11-10T14:25:43Z")
> [@Arrendajo](#): > > Oh my lord how I would hate living in the rural south. I don’t think I could do it. I’ve never lived in the rural south (I’m not sure I could do it either), but I have lived in Missouri and Kansas along the western edge of the bible belt, where not only would it be somewhat unwise to admit to being an atheist, in certain areas expression and acknowledgment of Christian faith is expected in daily life. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/27 "2010-11-10T14:42:32Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The polls disagree. Last I recall Scientologists had just barely edged out atheists as most distrusted group in America after atheists spent some years at the top; Muslims were more popular, and we know how unpopular they are in America right now. Atheists are typically regarded as scum; as immoral, as traitors, as psychotic, as liars. Can I get a cite on this? Especially your last sentence? Unless you live in a very rural place and are referring to that locale I cannot believe that this is the “typical” viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/28 "2010-11-10T14:46:14Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > Now, Christians may say the exact same thing about atheists as I have in the paragraph above, but unlike atheists, Christians have a track record a mile long of bad acts committed in the name of their god and making decisions that affect the country based entirely on their personal mythology. How healthy can this possibly be? Sorry - can’t let you off the hook here. Just as there are a wide array of Christians and some of them have a bad track record, there also are a wide array of atheists and some of them have a bad track record. You can’t just make a blanket statement about the Christian track record and ignore the track record of the atheists. I would never say religious liberty in the US is threatened by the actions of Kim Jong-Il - but religious liberty in North Korea sure is. And Kim is an atheist - North Korea is an officially atheist state. And North Korea isn’t the only example here - the French Revolution, Mexico under Calles, the Khmer Rouge, and others all persecuted the religious in the name of an officially promoted atheism. Now, these atheists were different than the tolerant American variety - just as the Inquisition was different from the tolerant dominant American strains of Christianity. But if you want to talk of track records on one side, you have to accept that the other side has one as well, and frankly to me it looks worse. Nothing in this tells us anything about the truth or falsehood of either claim - after all I (and you) can do terrible things while convinced of the truth or perfect facts. We all ought to remember that. ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/29 "2010-11-10T14:49:32Z")
My husband was raised in a fundamentalist evangelical family, but found his way to atheism about ten years ago. He claims that until he met my group of friends, where it’s no big deal, he’d told only two people–and one of them had stopped speaking to him completely because of it. We have no doubt that he would lose his job if his bosses found out. It’s a foreign world to me, but apparently to these people being an atheist is pretty much worse than being a child molester. On the other hand, you can get away with saying that you “believe in god” but have problems with organized worship. They’ll swallow that. It’s how we get out of going to church. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/30 "2010-11-10T14:52:14Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The polls disagree. Last I recall Scientologists had just barely edged out atheists as most distrusted group in America after atheists spent some years at the top; Muslims were more popular, and we know how unpopular they are in America right now. Atheists are typically regarded as scum; as immoral, as traitors, as psychotic, as liars. The last especially by the believers who refuse to even believe in atheists and claims we are just lying. I think that this must be a regional thing. I’m pretty openly atheist and no one really cares. I suspect that atheism is the third most popular belief system in this area, after Catholicism and Judaism. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/31 "2010-11-10T14:56:07Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > And North Korea isn’t the only example here - the French Revolution, Mexico under Calles, the Khmer Rouge, and others all persecuted the religious in the name of an officially promoted atheism. Can it really be said that the cause being promoted in those cases was actually atheism? It seems to me that some other ism was the real agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/32 "2010-11-10T15:07:38Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > The religious people I’ve known who distrusted atheists were the ones who were uneducated in a certain… way. As in, they never took it upon themselves to investigate that atheists can and frequently DO still subscribe to upstanding moral/philosophical frameworks (see: Sartre). We are just internally motivated, and don’t require fear of a father figure to do what’s right. There are religious people with degrees (see: tea party) who do not understand this. And there are people without any college at all who do. It is unfortunately possible to go through one’s entire life without exposure to basic philosophy, or even the realization that one is close-minded. > > This does likely constitute a majority of religious people, though I’m not particularly concerned with their thoughts on atheism unless they’re driven to, say, kill or maim atheists. And I feel comfortable stating that a vast minority of religious people are compelled to physically harm atheists. Oh, man. My very favorite workplace conversation ever was the time I was talking with an intern about religion for some reason: Her: I’m Catholic … what church do you go to? Me: Actually, I’m an atheist. Her: _blink blink_ But you’re so _nice_! ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/33 "2010-11-10T15:12:06Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Her: I’m Catholic … what church do you go to? > > Me: Actually, I’m an atheist. > > Her: _blink blink_ But you’re so _nice_! Last week I was out with a Catholic who admitted that she can’t even conceive of there being no god… but she’s pretty fascinated by my atheism and wants to know more. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/34 "2010-11-10T15:13:17Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Can it really be said that the cause being promoted in those cases was actually atheism? It seems to me that some other ism was the real agenda. Uh huh. And can’t the same thing be said about the Spanish Inquisition - after all it was run by the Spanish monarchy and not the Vatican. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/35 "2010-11-10T15:16:55Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Uh huh. And can’t the same thing be said about the Spanish Inquisition - after all it was run by the Spanish monarchy and not the Vatican. Sure, why not? And I suppose that middle American religious fervor is more a product of culture than of strict biblical teaching. ---
**Author:** ![palindromemordnilap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/db5fbb/32.png) [@palindromemordnilap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/palindromemordnilap)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/36 "2010-11-10T15:25:55Z")
I’ve never had any problems telling religious people that I’m not a fan of organized religion. I usually don’t describe myself as atheist because the existence of the universe and the maintenance of the rules of physics are proof enough of “god” if you use the word loosely enough. Also I find a lot of Jesus’ teachings inspiring even though I don’t believe he was divine. When I explain it that way, I have no problems with people. I’m not running for President, though. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/37 "2010-11-10T15:44:23Z")
> [@palindromemordnilap](#): > > I’ve never had any problems telling religious people that I’m not a fan of organized religion. I usually don’t describe myself as atheist because the existence of the universe and the maintenance of the rules of physics are proof enough of “god” if you use the word loosely enough. The existence of the universe and the maintenance of the rules of physics are proof enough of “Space Ghost” if you use the words loosely enough. If you are letting them assume that you are referring to the same “God” as they are, are you being intellectually honest with them or with yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/38 "2010-11-10T15:55:59Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Sorry - can’t let you off the hook here. Just as there are a wide array of Christians and some of them have a bad track record, there also are a wide array of atheists and some of them have a bad track record. > > You can’t just make a blanket statement about the Christian track record and ignore the track record of the atheists. I would never say religious liberty in the US is threatened by the actions of Kim Jong-Il - but religious liberty in North Korea sure is. And Kim is an atheist - North Korea is an officially atheist state. > > And North Korea isn’t the only example here - the French Revolution, Mexico under Calles, the Khmer Rouge, and others all persecuted the religious in the name of an officially promoted atheism. Now, these atheists were different than the tolerant American variety - just as the Inquisition was different from the tolerant dominant American strains of Christianity. But if you want to talk of track records on one side, you have to accept that the other side has one as well, and frankly to me it looks worse. > > Nothing in this tells us anything about the truth or falsehood of either claim - after all I (and you) can do terrible things while convinced of the truth or perfect facts. We all ought to remember that. Communism is just another religion. The meme that it ever had anything to do with atheism _qua_ atheism is specious. Communism is “atheist” only to the extent that it wants to eradicate competing religions. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/39 "2010-11-10T15:56:20Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I’d prefer an agnostic to an atheist, but that’s just me. Aren’t _you_ a vocal atheist? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123/40 "2010-11-10T16:05:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Communism is just another religion. The meme that it ever had anything to do with atheism _qua_ atheism is specious. Communism is “atheist” only to the extent that it wants to eradicate competing religions. But it’s not just communism, is it? Calles wasn’t a communist - and in fact suppressed the Communist Party in Mexico toward the tail end of his years in power. The French Revolution was anti-clerical, anti-religious and predated Communism by some years, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/general-us-attitude-to-atheist-leader/560123.md?page=3)