Yeah, this was very apparent when we dynoed a manual and automatic Matrix XRS (180 HP).
It showed the manual putting down ~160 HP on the road where the auto was ~130.
So you end up paying more (for the auto) and getting less.
Just checked my owner’s manual. The only AT maintenance on a 2004 Accord is changing the AT fluid at 120,000 miles, or 6 years. It’s almost a non-issue.
Holy cow! That’s pretty insane!
So when it is due, does it require them to remove the tranny or something? 
I despise automatics. Whoever invented them should rot in Hell. In my recent thread about trying to find a new car to buy (over here) I discussed how several cars that I like I will almost certainly not buy because they are only available in automatic, or the version I want (like a 6 cylinder) is only available in automatic. I almost understand the reasoning in a sedan or minivan, but I am of the mindset that EVERY truck, SUV, sports car, and other car designed to have power should have a stick shift. As to those who think manual transmissions are too much work/confusing: no, it’s really not. Once you learn it’s second nature to shift, you do it without thinking. Hell, they’re even safer, consider the following scenario:
You’re on a highway, say, route 66. A large, slow moving truck is ahead of you, and you go to pass it, in your craptastic automatic transmission car. You get into the oncoming lane and stomp on the gas pedal to pass him. Well, your car’s fancy-schmany computer says 'hey, a lot of gas…maybe he wants to accelerate?" and it downshifts, cause it’s smart, right? Well, after a second of acceleration, the computer then thinks ‘hey, this is too fast for this gear, I’ll shift up for him.’ And then BAM, your acceleration is gone and you fly headfirst into the oncoming semi that you thought you had enough time to avoid, but didn’t, cause automatic trnasmissions suck. Well, now you’re dead, all because you bought an automatic. Nice goin, jackass.
For mrAru and myself that works out to 2 years…
FWIW, mrAru can do a manual tranny repair/rebiuld/replacement in his sleep. We currently have a Subaru Loyale that is going to the first person who answers the swap-ad free because we bought it used for 1200, and 6 months later the tranny died, and it will cost 1200 to replace. I dont think so. If it was a sensible manual tranny, the car would be on the road. We have agreed to NEVER own an automatic ever again, and barring physical infirmity requiring an auto tranny, hell will freeze over and pat robertson will dance naked widdershins around a bonfire before we get another auto tranny vehicle again.
I didn’t realize that the car market here was largely for automatics. I’ve always driven manual cars, always, as does everyone in my family. Interesting stuff.
Although some states do have an automatics-only restriction. South Dakota, Nebraska, and Florida, for example.
Yes.
:o
–Cliffy
So, how complicated is the manual transmission part of a U.K. driving test? Learning to shift, feather the clutch and how to start on an incline can all be learned in an afternoon or less. Downshifting isn’t necessary and probably isn’t advisable unless the brakes fail. What else is there?
Hey, the first tune-up isn’t due until over 100k miles, and the oil change intervals are 10k miles! I can’t imagine any reason why they would be recommending such long maintenance intervals unless they were very confident about their vehicles.
For openers, you obviously never have to drive in stop-and-go traffic. I used to have a commute that involved a five-mile stretch that routinely took over 45 minutes. Stop, move forward 10 feet, stop, move forward 10 feet, etc. Do that with a manual, and the muscles in your left leg begin to spasm.
As far as passing goes, you can always force an automatic to stay in a lower gear. That’s what it means when there’s D, D3, D2, for example. And even without that, the passing ability in my new-ish Accord is noticeably better than that of my old manual-shift Integra. In some of the sportier vehicles these days, there’s an automatic with a “shift” option, whereby you have complete control over what gear you’re in. The only thing missing is a manual clutch.
I used to swear by a manual for driving on snow and ice, since I could start the car in 2nd gear, for example. Well, guess what the “2” setting on my automatic does. That’s right, it starts the car in 2nd gear.
I’ve been driving for 36 years, and this is the first automatic I’ve ever owned. I’m finding that there’s nothing about manual shift that I miss. Admittedly, my urge to play Boy Racer is pretty much gone. If I actually wanted to toss a roadster around on a twisty country road, a manual would be nice, but I can live without it.
I think we’ve spotted the true source of your problem! 
My Cherokee is the only automatic transmission vehicle I’ve owned. It will probably be the last.
The Cherokee’s transmission has not failed, with one exception. Being computer controlled, I was unable to get out of third gear when an electronic component failed (covered under the warranty, otherwise it would have been $200). I could not believe I couldn’t shift into fourth. But that’s not why I don’t like automatic transmissions. Aside from that glitch, it’s worked as it was designed to work. The problem with them is that I’ve always driven cars with standard transmissions. I know when to shift, and when not to. I can see what’s coming ahead, and I can plan for it. Automatics can’t. I’ve noticed that my automatic transmissions shifts when I don’t want it to, and doesn’t shift when I do. I hate that.
I have. Fourteen years of L.A. traffic using cars (and motorcycles, of course) with standard transmissions, and four years in an automatic. I still prefer standard transmissions.
Learning to do it is one thing; learning to do it properly takes a little longer and learning to do it as second nature longer still; I think your estimate of a single afternoon is hopeful at best.
I don’t know how much simpler is the automatic test, as I’ve never driven an automatic, but clutch control and gear changes represent a very significant portion of most people’s driving instruction.
Once again, the source of the problem has revealed itself!
I don’t think that this is something people are going to find any middle ground on…frankly automatic and manual people are as different as Coke people and Pepsi people…
With precise control of the gas, you can manipulate what gear the automatic goes into- I do this. I own a little 2000 Ford Focus with an automatic transmission, and I don’t have any problem passing slow-moving vehicles. If all else fails, I can always drop it in the next lower gear setting.
I’m sure I’ll learn to drive a manual sooner or later- perhaps my next car will have one for the horsepower, mileage, and lower repair cost advantages (I’ve also noticed in some cars, anyway, the manual version is a couple hundred bucks cheaper :eek: ).
Well, it is a Honda. Those things are tanks.
I also have an insane “tune up” interval (iridium plugs last 198,000? KM) but my oil change interval is 5K Miles (8K KM). Much better than my Voyager but I run her hard and so I do my changes at 3K Miles. I believe most “normal” American cars are still using the 3K Mile oil change interval and a shorter ATF change interval.
I agree with Incubus. There isn’t a middle ground. Even “manumatics” aren’t a very good compromise. The key is that any auto is going to sap a lot of power from the engine. My 180 HP Matrix can take out an automatic vehicle with 200-220 HP in a race. I also get the same, or better, mileage.
For a person who wants performance, manuals are a given. I have strong legs so traffic isn’t a problem (Toronto traffic + 35 KM one way = walking speed).
I’ll probably never go back to automatics now that I have the choice.
Essentially, there’s just less to fail on - you can’t get marked down for inappropriate choice of gear, bad use of the clutch, hill starts (unless you really screw up), and the emergency stop’s probably easier.
I sit on the fence! I drive an automatic (not through choice), and I really appreciate it when in slow-moving traffic. But out on country lanes, or when manoevering, I dislike not having the sense of control the clutch give you.
I agree. I think it takes at least serveral days if not a week or more to learn to drive a manual reasonably well in all conditions. You could probably learn not to pop the clutch too much in an afternoon but there are many other things to learn such as proper gear selection, just getting used to the engine sound to let you know your rpm’s, whether to downshift, how to start on a steep incline etc.
I sit on the fence too. My first two cars were manuals and I loved them. My third car was a BMW automatic and I wished it was a manual but now I have an SUV and am very glad it is an automatic. I love driving manuals but they can be a pain in heavy, tedious traffic (especially when you are trying to talk on your cell phone and eat a chesseburger at the same time 
).
I bought a 79 international harvester scout manual tranny=) for 1200 in 1989, only reason it isnt on the road is mrAru hit black ice and put it through a stone fence and over a tree, and killed the radiator. The scout had given 10 years of service to us before we did anything to the tranny, and has been needing the radiator repaired for a couple years because money is tight, and I needed a commutor vehicle not a work around the farm vehicle. We bought me a subaru for the mileage and dependability as I was driving 150 miles a day round trip for work. We had frequently bought used manuals and gotten more than 6 months out of them. Most cars I have owned in my life I bought used, same with mrAru.