I like them both so I guess that make me bi-axial. I learned to drive a stick with no instructions at all. When I was 15 I accidently rolled an MG down a hill while shifting it (it was parked). The owner thought it would be funny to see me start it and drive it back up hill. Since I understood how a clutch worked it was a piece of cake to move the car.
Automatics can be a lot of fun in a powerful car. In my youth we had cars that would burn through 3 gears leaving a rather long continuous strip on the road. I still like shifting for the fun of it. Even daily driving can be fun if you shift without the clutch. I also like my work car because the automatic is SOOOOO smooth that it is noticeable to me. I get a kick out of how well it works. It never gets old to me.
Regarding automatic transmissions in performance cars, one needs to keep in mind the difference between traditional automatics with torque converters and the ones which are basically manual transmissions with a computer controlled clutch.
The Porsche Tiptronic is a traditional automatic.
The automatics in Ferraris, the BMW SMG gearbox, and the Audi something or other gearbox are examples of the manual with computer controlled clutch. Although they have fully automatic modes, they pretty much suck when driven that way.
The new 500hp BMW M-5 is said to only be available with a new 7 speed SMG transmission.
Although I prefer a traditional manual, I think the way of the future for performance cars is the SMG style gearbox.
When I bought my BMW 540 with 6 speed I had to order it. The dealer said they didn’t order 6 speed for the lot. I think the 5 series is the only V8 sedan with a stick shift available in the USA now.
Am I the only one who prefers to drive a stick in traffic?
When I drive an automatic in traffic, my right leg is constantly in use, either braking or accelerating. After 20 minutes or 1/2 hour of this, my right leg is about to fall off. I’ve actually had to use my left leg to break to let my right leg rest. I hate using my left leg to break.
With a manual, I use the break much less because you… coast…go…coast…go, for the most part. My left leg doesn’t get that tired either because I’ll either leave it in a low gear, or if going to slow for that, I’ll put it in gear for a bit of gas then neutral, and let it coast with the clutch out.
The sense I get from this thread and other conversations is that the differences vis-a-vis power/acceleration ratios in manual vs automatics are now rapidly diminishing.
Also, people keep saying that it’s just a matter of time before most roadcars will become automatics anyway.
I’m currently deciding which driving test to take, having taken some lessons in both.
You see I’ve pretty much figured out automatics after just one lesson, but even after three lessons I was still trying to remember the details of shifting back into first when coming to a rolling stop in the manual. I could probably learn it perfectly well by six or seven more lessons - but then I’d have to APPLY all that to three-point turns etc.
Man driving automatics are easy though. An hour in the car and I was already speeding down the dual-carriageway at 60 (my instructor doesn’t seem to mind - though technically I shouldn’t do it and he should mind).
Oh and re: the “creep” I don’t see what the problem is in an automatic.
People here seem to be saying that if you move behind a slow moving large vehicle and decide to speed up you can somehow control it better with the clutch - but honestly having drien both I think it’s relatively easier to grind past and control speed with an automatic transmission. You just have to be a little more sensitive with the brake pedal and you must now feel out the subtle gear shifts. I honestly found no problem in doing it.
Oh and for me to learn auto in five lessons as opposed to probably 20 in manual is just wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more cost effective.
Oh and whoever asked about driving a manual with an auto licence in the UK the answer is YES - it is deemed illegal.
I think it’s rather strange to say Americans don’t care about power. Most new cars are almost always toted for their HP ratings (and almost never for their torque or WHP ratings). American do care about HP, it’s just that most Americans don’t know shit about cars.
A 180 HP manual Matrix is rated for 9L / 100 KM city, 7L/100 highway (26/33 mpg) that actually puts down 165 HP. The Acura TSX is rated at 200 HP with 11/8 (21/29 mpg) and produces less useful power as my Matrix. Lock up torque converters only lock up at high speed/gear (typically 4th). The auto Matrix has one and it didn’t lock up on the dyno at WOT.
I’m just glad automatics are typically an option which cost $1000 (CAN average). I get to enjoy a faster, cheaper car from someone locked into buying only automatics.
I always thought that an automatic would stay in gear until you took your foot off the gas, then it would shift. At least, that is what my car seems to do.
In addition, driving a stick is just damn right fun. Unfortunately, I’ve been stuck with an auto for the last year and a half and I really don’t look forward to ever driving it.
Also, I strongly disagree with whoever said that driving a stick can be learned in an afternoon. If someone did, I’d contend they have a poor instructor who also doesn’t know how to drive a manuel. I also believe it takes at least a good 3-6 months for driving a stick for it to become truly second nature (hell, even that estimate may be generous, but it’s been years since I’ve learned…). That means no stalling the engine, no looking at the RPMs for when to shift and certainly not riding the clutch.
Oh, and I’ve driven my stick in almost nothing but stop and go traffic and my leg has never gotten sore, at least no worse than my right one.
You can get continuously-variable ratio transmissions now in AUDI, HONDA, and SATURN cars in the US. These are essentially belt-drive transmissions, where the drive wheel diameters change, giving a contrantly variable drive ratio.
I drove one once (it was a HONDA Civic HX), and it felt weird-sort of like driving a car witha slipping clutch. They work quite well, however…I’m wondering if this is the best option-seems like they combine the simplicity of a manual with he ease of an automatic.
Anyone here drive one? Are there any reliability problems?
The way I see it, doing your own shifting in your car is a bit like doing your own programming on a computer. In the early days of home and personal computers, when they didn’t come bundled with any software except an operating system and/or a programming language, you pretty much had to be a computer programmer to be a computer user. Nowadays, though, the typical computer user doesn’t know how to program and is perfectly happy that way. Sure, programming the computer yourself—telling it exactly what you want it to do—gives you more power over it, allows you to use it more efficiently, and can be more fun if you like that sort of thing. But for the average user, with the computers and software that are available today, it’s more trouble than it’s worth.
I tried this out the other day…my PoS 998cc engine got to nearly 90mph before going back to top gear. So bouv either has a badly-designed transmission, or (s)he is trying to drive really fast.
A better parallel would be that driving an automatic is like doing everything with Microsoft’s default settings… “It looks like you’re trying to overtake…would you like me to change gears for you, or…”
I am the first to admit that with modern automatics, many of the traditional advantages of manuals are slipping away (just starting, mind you. Manuals will be around for a long time). Fuel economy is a key one. However, manuals are simply more fun. That will never change. The high tech automatic transmissions are also expensive. Want sports mode? Economy mode? Those things have been available in manual for a century. It’s called the human brain. Change late for sport, early for economy. Also, for all the advances in auto boxes, there is one thing they will never be able to do - anticipate! As I accelerate in my manual, I change up through the gears, but when I get to third, I don’t go higher because I know that as soon as I do, I will need to start decelerating for that corner up ahead an instant later. An auto, on the other hand, will make the unnecessary change, then have to correct it. This brings me to another thing I don’t like with autos (and this is just my personal non-expert observation here) - they seem to somehow “float” through corners. I think it’s from going through in too high a gear, giving a coasting feeling and a sensation of a top-heavy body roll to the outside. A manual, OTOH, knocked back into second for a typical suburban ninety degree turn, will tend to squat nicely into the corner and have those revs ready for you the instant you need them.
I prefer driving a manual in heavy stop start traffic too (the only exception might be on the occasional steep incline, but even then it’s no great dramas). I don’t like having to heft my right leg across from the accelerator to the brake and back again constantly. I’d prefer to just ease up and down on the clutch at these walking speeds (and the clutch in my little Corolla is very light). Wait longer than a few seconds and it’s no effort to just knock it into neutral. Drive longer than a few seconds, and you’ll be off the clutch properly anyway, so it’s not particularly going to wear the thing out, I don’t think.
But all in all, manuals are just more fun. I get more driving pleasure out of my bog standard Toyota than I do out of very expensive and so-called “sporty” automatics I’ve driven. Luckily, although here in Australia we are fond of our automatics (most cars are auto), it’s not as bad as the US. There are enough manual drivers around that most cars are offered with a stick shift.
And yes, the average teeenage drug user car thief these days can’t drive one!
Well, I’m not the person you quoted, but I’ll offer my answer anyway.
I’m actually not quite sure whether I pivot or move my foot entirely. I’ll figure it out tomorrow. However, I do know that I frequently readjust the positing of my foot on the brake, because I’m afraid that were it to slip (whether it be the fault of myself, rear-ended, etc) that it would land squarely on the gas pedal thus careening me forward. This is yet another reason why i prefer a manuel; there’s no chance of that happening.
Yeah, the rally drivers don’t call it “heel and toe” for nothing. I like my entire foot squarely on the pedal. In any event, I don’t think it’s particularly easier to pivot as the brake tends to be further from the firewall than the accelerator. Probably even more uncomfortable than moving my leg across.
Which is why I prefer to simply make small movements on the clutch pedal (my friction point is relatively close to the floor, which helps)
In the USA, new cars equipped with manual transmissions are less than 4% of the market. Also, the EPA has determined that automatics are less polluting than manual cars (the emissions during gear changes are less with electronicsally-controlled automatics.
So I guess that manuals will soon be unavailable-the cost of certifying them isn’t worth it. I expect that CVTs will be the standard over the next few years.
My Toyata Prius doesn’t even have a transmission in the traditional sense. They call it a continuously variable transmission, but it is NOT the cone-and-belt system.
It is a planetary gear system, with the main electic motor/generator driving the sun gera, the gas engine running the planetary carrier, and a second motor/generator hooked up to the ring (which is also hooked up to the wheels through a reduction gear)
Brian
