# Generally one changes a rule THEN enforces it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 16, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108 "2009-02-16T16:25:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/61 "2009-02-16T22:27:59Z")
> [@wring](#): > > **Lynn** , thanks for clarification - a bit more, please? As I stated in my OP, my gripe wasn’t w/the disciplinary action per se, but that it was stated as “death threats are not allowed”, and the implication was “FOAD” was a death threat. > > I actually get, understand and agree that when a mod is enforcing the rules that they should not have to deal w/some one being an asshole about it (“fuck off” would be such a thing, as would, of course “fuck off and die” -not that I"m saying either of those two to you, you understand). > > In your recent example, it seems that you’re saying (and I would agree w/this) that saying “Fuck off” to the mod in response to their official moderation post would be a problem. But “Fuck off” to another poster ? and FOAD as a general response? > > Again - wrt the actual event, had no problem w/the action taken, but the rationale (IE under the ‘death threat’ corallary) > > thanks. We’re still discussing the whole Sapo issue in modmail. I really can’t comment any more on it. While we’ll probably continue to permit “Fuck off” to another poster, and possibly even “FOAD”, it’s not something we want to encourage. They are very strong insults and directives. They are also pretty boring. While we don’t want people to get into contest where they keep inventing more imaginative insults, we’re not going to completely ban run-of-the-mill insults, either. We don’t want to see any poster responding to most of his critics, opponents, whatever, with a rote response. Pit posts must actually add something to the discussion, even if it’s only an expression of outrage against the subject being pitted. Oh, and some people seem to be under the impression that any Pit thread must start with obscenity/blasphemy/vulgarity. Not so, and it’s never been so. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/62 "2009-02-16T22:31:43Z")
Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/63 "2009-02-16T22:31:48Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > Granted, anbout the authority figure, in a place like Saudi. But the other example is indefensible as an argument against using strong language - spurious possibilities of murderous behavior (by authority figures, or otherwise), even when in the example of the use of serioulsy provacative language, does not a good defense of policy make. I’m disapointed that you trotted that one out. Oh, I’m not saying that we’re like the Saudis. I’m just saying what was going through my head at the time. I was also recalling the advice my father gave me…he told me to never, ever give the cops any lip if I was stopped for any reason. The thing is, you don’t start sassing authorities unless you want to up the ante. If you want a change in policy, or you want a discussion with someone, you DON’T tell them to fuck off. You try to reason with them. If you have previously told them to fuck off, even if it’s from another incident, you can’t expect them to want to have a reasonable discussion with you this time. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/64 "2009-02-16T22:35:29Z")
Flip Off Angry Drunks With Air Rifles, Resulting In Organs Rended. FOAD WARRIOR. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/65 "2009-02-16T22:37:39Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > II was also thinking of the bad old days in the American South, when the sheriff was pretty much a law unto himself. With all due respect — and this has nothing to do with either your administration or your moderation — could we PLEASE stop with the South bashing? It has not been unheard of for Northern cities to be run by crime mobs and cronies. The whole Prohibition thing and the Roaring Twenties were all about Yankee anarchy. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/66 "2009-02-16T22:39:36Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Most of what people are seeing as new rules are not new rules. They are just clarifications of rules already in place. No, they aren’t. At best, they are completely different applications that could not have been reasonably anticipated prior to the “new” way of enforcing them. Mods have been told to fuck off in the pit as long as I’ve been lurking this place. Couple years ago, I told **Giraffe** (and maybe **Frank** , I was on a roll) to go fuck themselves with broom handles. No official sanctions followed. If I did the same thing today, I might get banned. Far as I know, I’ve never had an official warning from anybody here. You gave me an incredibly bitchy response to a silly thread I posted in MPSIMS once…about a dozen posters told you to go take a midol and leave me alone…I think Gfactor told me to not get up in somebody’s grill once…but no warnings. Now, I’m actually wondering if I’m about to get a warning for questioning **Tuba Diva** for punting a thread to IMHO from ATMB. It is very annoying to posters to have rarely seen entities run in and start moderating forums they don’t usually moderate. I’m taking specifically about Ed anywhere, and Lynn in the Pit. From what I see, the mods here are all in a state of confusion lately. Nobody knows what is happening, everybody is hypersensitive to every little thing, moderator actions are happening for little or no discernible reason. If y’all are “having discussions” or whatever, fine…but don’t be passing out warning for things that have never been considered out of line before, don’t be inventing new/reinterpeted/clarified rules on the spot and issuing ex post facto warnings/bannings, and otherwise chill the fuck out. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/67 "2009-02-16T22:43:22Z")
In fairness to Lynn, she’s modded the Pit for years. She was the original Pit mod, I think. I mean, she may not be official or anything, but it’s really no surprise when she joins a discussion. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/68 "2009-02-16T22:43:54Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > With all due respect — and this has nothing to do with either your administration or your moderation — could we PLEASE stop with the South bashing? It has not been unheard of for Northern cities to be run by crime mobs and cronies. The whole Prohibition thing and the Roaring Twenties were all about Yankee anarchy. But you **know** it was SOUTH New York that the cops used the broom handle on that guy. QED. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/69 "2009-02-16T22:46:08Z")
What a sheltered life I must have lead. I now find out saying “butthurt much?” can lead to a knife fight and “FOAD” to getting killed directly without the benefit of the knife fight first. I learn something every day. I suppose FOTSAAGR (Fuck Off to Saudi Arabia and Get Raped) is right out then. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/70 "2009-02-16T22:53:33Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > No, they aren’t. At best, they are completely different applications that could not have been reasonably anticipated prior to the “new” way of enforcing them. Mods have been told to fuck off in the pit as long as I’ve been lurking this place. Couple years ago, I told **Giraffe** (and maybe **Frank** , I was on a roll) to go fuck themselves with broom handles. No official sanctions followed. If I did the same thing today, I might get banned. Far as I know, I’ve never had an official warning from anybody here. You gave me an incredibly bitchy response to a silly thread I posted in MPSIMS once…about a dozen posters told you to go take a midol and leave me alone…I think Gfactor told me to not get up in somebody’s grill once…but no warnings. > > Now, I’m actually wondering if I’m about to get a warning for questioning **Tuba Diva** for punting a thread to IMHO from ATMB. > > It is very annoying to posters to have rarely seen entities run in and start moderating forums they don’t usually moderate. I’m taking specifically about Ed anywhere, and Lynn in the Pit. > > From what I see, the mods here are all in a state of confusion lately. Nobody knows what is happening, everybody is hypersensitive to every little thing, moderator actions are happening for little or no discernible reason. If y’all are “having discussions” or whatever, fine…but don’t be passing out warning for things that have never been considered out of line before, don’t be inventing new/reinterpeted/clarified rules on the spot and issuing ex post facto warnings/bannings, and otherwise chill the fuck out. It’s all Obama’s fault. This didn’t happen with Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/71 "2009-02-16T22:57:21Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > In fairness to Lynn, she’s modded the Pit for years. She was the original Pit mod, I think. I mean, she may not be official or anything, but it’s really no surprise when she joins a discussion. Joining a discussion and moderating are two different things. I don’t know if I mentioned it in this thread or one of the other ones on the same subject, but the pit is unique..enough so that only those actually moderating it on a day to day basis have the “feel” for it…and should be the only ones moderating it other than for dire emergency. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/72 "2009-02-16T23:07:29Z")
Still a weak argument. Like I said, Lynn moderated the Pit for years. Now, maybe she doesn’t have a feel for a Giraffe-type Pit, but that’s pretty moot at this point. She certainly has a feel for the Pit’s whole history. She was the one who oversaw such rules as not bashing banned posters, which was a good one I thought. It’s unseemly — and frankly cowardish — to bash people who can’t respond. And besides all that, she’s an admin, which is basically an ubermod that has boardwide scope. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/73 "2009-02-16T23:13:28Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Still a weak argument. Like I said, Lynn moderated the Pit for years. Now, maybe she doesn’t have a feel for a Giraffe-type Pit, but that’s pretty moot at this point. She certainly has a feel for the Pit’s whole history. She was the one who oversaw such rules as not bashing banned posters, which was a good one I thought. It’s unseemly — and frankly cowardish — to bash people who can’t respond. And besides all that, she’s an admin, which is basically an ubermod that has boardwide scope. Doesn’t change the fact that she hasn’t moderated here recently, other than when someone dared to knock Planned Parenthood, or otherwise killed one of her sacred cows. Now she’s whining about how strong a insult “fuck off” is. Whatever she had back in the day, she’s lost it now. She’s used her mod/admin stroke to advance her own personal agenda, and that makes all her decisions suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/74 "2009-02-16T23:15:15Z")
Well. Can’t really argue with that, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/75 "2009-02-16T23:28:20Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > She’s used her mod/admin stroke to advance her own personal agenda, and that makes all her decisions suspect. This. The whole “posting as a mod/mod hat off/now I’m a poster again, with a venomous agenda, ta-DA!!/ now I’m a mod, better watch your ass, boy, and no back-talk, either/ now I’m a poster/ now I’m a floor wax/ now I’m a dessert topping” business is incompetent at best, corrupt at worst. The only answer for a mod opining in a thread is Fuck Off And Get Really, Really, Really Ill But Under No Conditions Are You To Die, Ever, Just Writhe In Agony Eternally. Mods should moderate, Rockers should rock. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/76 "2009-02-16T23:30:17Z")
She is clearly not whining. She has answered the questions put to her in a calm, direct and even personal way. That accusation is baseless and unfair. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/77 "2009-02-16T23:40:39Z")
> [@Ensign\_Edison](#): > > She is clearly not whining. She has answered the questions put to her in a calm, direct and even personal way. That accusation is baseless and unfair. Who takes “fuck off and die” seriously as an insult, much less a “death threat OMG!!!11!!!Eleventyone!!!11! Smiting with the Ban Hammer” level posting? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/78 "2009-02-16T23:43:31Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I think CarnalK would have the potential to be a great pit mod. I think CarnalK will probably be the next one banned…bwhahaha! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/79 "2009-02-16T23:52:33Z")
I don’t take it seriously as an insult. However, I DO take it seriously as a challenge to my authority as a mod/admin. Coming from a poster who has made it clear that he intends to be an asshole to the whole moderation team, and who has a history of challenging the team at every opportunity, well, that’s what got him kicked. He had a history of being an asshole, not just to me, but to everyone who mods. The Powers That Be are unhappy with the way the Pit has been running lately. I was asked to step back in. I had asked, earlier (don’t know how much earlier) to pretty much retire from the Pit and moderating in general. I stayed on as an admin so that I could cover for anyone who was taking a break, or was going to be offline, or whatever. I very rarely used my admin/mod powers, except to ban the occasional spammer when I noticed one, or to fix a poster’s problem (for instance, Scylla had one of his posts reprinted all over the internet, usually no attribution, and I spent some time and money correcting the worst of it). Now I’ve been asked to come in again, and bring the Pit more in line with what TPTB want. I accepted the job. If you have complaints about the way I do my job, talk to Ed. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108/80 "2009-02-17T00:02:58Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > With all due respect — and this has nothing to do with either your administration or your moderation — could we PLEASE stop with the South bashing? It has not been unheard of for Northern cities to be run by crime mobs and cronies. The whole Prohibition thing and the Roaring Twenties were all about Yankee anarchy. Yeah, I know. And occasionally I’ll make jokes about the rumrunners and the Mob. Sometimes I’ll make comments on the same subjects. My Grandpa Bodoni was, in fact, a low-level Mafioso who ran booze during Prohibition. It was the best money he could make at the time, although I’m not really happy that he was a criminal. It is, however, part of my family history. I don’t think that posting about the bad parts of the history of the South is necessarily South bashing. If I claimed that Southern cops STILL will abuse their powers as a matter of course, then I think that would be South bashing. Some Southern cops DO abuse their powers. So do some Northern cops. Cops ALL OVER THE US (and probably the whole damned world) abuse their powers, but it’s only SOME in each area. I think that Southern cops were the worst. I’m from the South, or at least I’m Texan, and I think that this was a shameful practice. And I don’t think that waving our hands and saying “Never happened, never happened” is the answer. I think that here in Texas, we’ve had far too many cops and lawyers convicting the most convenient person, and not always the person who was, in fact, guilty. I think that we should acknowledge this and try to do better. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-one-changes-a-rule-then-enforces-it/486108.md?page=5)