# Generally speaking, how many masculine groups/cutulres are there? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 10, 2018, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579 "2018-02-10T08:43:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Luciano700](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Luciano700](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luciano700)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/21 "2018-02-10T19:33:20Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Are drag queens a “masculine” culture? How about butch lesbians? Meh, you’re fine adding them. But they actually have to have men to really count. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/22 "2018-02-10T19:35:33Z")
> [@Luciano700](#): > > I am listing whatever I can think off > Let’s see > > Biker, punk, street racers, classic gentleman, DIYers, basketballers, skaters, ninjas, male feminists, bodybuilders, etc > > I am defining too narrow? Please let me know I’d ask to see a RL ninja, but if you see them they’re not ninjas.:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/23 "2018-02-10T19:43:03Z")
> [@Luciano700](#): > > Meh, you’re fine adding them. But they actually have to have men to really count. This guy appears to hit all your requirements: [black and hypermasculine](http://www.barcroft.tv/bodybuilder-transgender-national-championships-npc-female-to-male), right? ---
**Author:** ![Luciano700](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Luciano700](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luciano700)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/24 "2018-02-10T19:57:38Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > This guy appears to hit all your requirements: [black and hypermasculine](http://www.barcroft.tv/bodybuilder-transgender-national-championships-npc-female-to-male), right? The accent seems way too off And didn’t I say that I am interested in studying masculinity in general? May as well gimme how masculinity is perceived through the lens of disabled and gay people 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/25 "2018-02-10T20:13:08Z")
> [@Luciano700](#): > > Meh, you’re fine adding them. But they actually have to have men to really count. I’m not adding them. I’m asking what your criterion is for a “masculine group/culture.” You don’t seem to have any clear idea of what you mean. Are drag queens, in your estimation, a masculine culture just because they are male, even though they deliberately adopt feminine clothing and behaviors? > [@Luciano007](#): > > There is gangster, cowboy, soldiers/military nerds, MMA bros, frat boys, metrosexuals, chavs, Hunter-and-gatherers, MRAs, etc As another example, I have no idea why “hunter-gatherers” is in there. It in no way a masculine group or culture, but a subsistence category. In most traditional cultures the men hunt while the women gather. You might as well say “farmers,” since in traditional cultures the men typically clear the land while women cultivate and harvest the crops (but there are many exceptions). ---
**Author:** ![Luciano700](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Luciano700](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luciano700)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/26 "2018-02-10T20:37:26Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I’m not adding them. I’m asking what your criterion is for a “masculine group/culture.” You don’t seem to have any clear idea of what you mean. > > Are drag queens, in your estimation, a masculine culture just because they are male, even though they deliberately adopt feminine clothing and behaviors? If I bothered listing metrosexuals and male feminists, not sure why that wouldn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/27 "2018-02-10T20:39:48Z")
> [@Luciano700](#): > > The accent seems way too off > And didn’t I say that I am interested in studying masculinity in general? May as well gimme how masculinity is perceived through the lens of disabled and gay people 😉 How does that address the question I asked you? I’ll repeat: Does the trans bodybuilder in the link I provided fit within your model of masculine groups/cultures? Why or why not? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/28 "2018-02-10T20:42:30Z")
> [@Luciano700](#): > > If I bothered listing metrosexuals and male feminists, not sure why that wouldn’t count. What is it that you really want to know? Thank carefully and ask your question in a way that we can all at least understand. Help us help you. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/29 "2018-02-10T20:44:03Z")
> [@Luciano700](#): > > If I bothered listing metrosexuals and male feminists, not sure why that wouldn’t count. Neither metrosexuals nor (especially) male feminists deliberately present themselves with feminine characteristics, as drag queens do. (And if you would include male feminists in the same category as drag queens, then you have some _very_ peculiar and naive ideas about male feminists.:dubious:) But I’m asking you to define what you mean by masculine groups. So far you’ve mostly further confused the issue. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/30 "2018-02-10T21:09:53Z")
I’m getting the impression, that’s his schtick! He clearly has a gift. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/31 "2018-02-10T21:55:51Z")
4 chan trolls, nice guys, gamers, hackers, soccer hooligans, football fans, baseball fans, snooker players. Then there’s all the car, motorcycle, truck people and gun people, however you want to divide them up. Yachties. Poker players. Outdoor adventurer types. Outdoor survivalist types. My daughter was complaining about the super masculine vibe at the environmental protest she went to, so maybe environmental protesters. Oooh, lumberjacks, a classic. How about oil tycoons? ---
**Author:** ![Luciano700](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Luciano700](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luciano700)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/32 "2018-02-10T22:04:34Z")
Last reply was really spot on, yeah lumberjacks are very good example I forgot to mentioned too. The problem with the question I feel are semantics Yes, drag queens are still a male subculture. They may be one of the least masculine, but that still doesn’t make it less of a male subculture, just the same way butch lesbians are not any less of a female one. ---
**Author:** ![Luciano700](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Luciano700](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luciano700)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/33 "2018-02-10T22:07:25Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I’m getting the impression, that’s his schtick! He clearly has a gift. What’s wrong with studying some cultural and social differences of something? So much that the norms are evolving and changing so… ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/34 "2018-02-10T22:25:07Z")
What is it you really want to know? You haven’t clearly asked a question that is understandable. If you could do that, there is possibly someone here who could answer it. There are too many variables in your OP . ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/35 "2018-02-10T22:46:10Z")
> [@Luciano700](#): > > What’s wrong with studying some cultural and social differences of something? So much that the norms are evolving and changing so… Once again, you dodge the actual question. How are you studying something if you can’t ask a coherent question or explain to people what you want to know? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/36 "2018-02-10T22:48:18Z")
> [@Luciano700](#): > > Last reply was really spot on, yeah lumberjacks are very good example I forgot to mentioned too. > The problem with the question I feel are semantics > Yes, drag queens are still a male subculture. They may be one of the least masculine, but that still doesn’t make it less of a male subculture, just the same way butch lesbians are not any less of a female one. Is there anyone with a Y chromosome who isn’t masculine, according to your definition so far? Bueller?.. Bueller?.. Anyone?.. Aside: Are you off your meds right now? ---
**Author:** ![Luciano700](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Luciano700](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luciano700)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/37 "2018-02-10T22:53:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > How does that address the question I asked you? > > I’ll repeat: Does the trans bodybuilder in the link I provided fit within your model of masculine groups/cultures? Why or why not? Sure he fits, I never stated he has to be strictly a cis male. ---
**Author:** ![Luciano700](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Luciano700](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luciano700)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/38 "2018-02-10T22:55:12Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Is there anyone with a Y chromosome who isn’t masculine, according to your definition so far? > > Bueller?.. Bueller?.. Anyone?.. > Aside: Are you off your meds right now? No… ---
**Author:** ![Luciano700](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Luciano700](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luciano700)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/39 "2018-02-10T22:58:00Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Once again, you dodge the actual question. How are you studying something if you can’t ask a coherent question or explain to people what you want to know? For one, why are there so many ideas of masculinity? And why do so many seem to vary by race, culture, religion or age group? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2018, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579/40 "2018-02-10T23:01:06Z")
> [@Luciano700](#): > > No… Answer my question. Does the trans body builder fit into your rubric of “masculine group/culture”? Or does his lack of Y chromosome a disqualifyer? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generally-speaking-how-many-masculine-groups-cutulres-are-there/808579.md?page=3)