# Generals' ranks **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 5, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619 "2014-02-05T23:54:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/1 "2014-02-05T23:54:37Z")
Before a field marshall or general of the army, you have: brigadier general \* major general \*\* lieutenant general \*\*\* colonel general or just ‘general’ \*\*\*\* How were these qualifications derived? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/2 "2014-02-06T00:00:05Z")
Don’t know the derivation, but I did once learn a mnemonic for remembering the sequence of the ranks: “Be My Little General” to stand for Brigadier, Major, Lieutenant, General. ---
**Author:** ![blue\_infinity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_infinity/32/2817_2.png) [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/3 "2014-02-06T00:00:47Z")
[The Master speaks.](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/796/why-does-a-lt-gen-outrank-a-maj-gen-but-a-maj-outranks-a-lt) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/4 "2014-02-06T00:01:54Z")
General - the dude in charge (Captain General) Lt. General - the assistant dude in charge, second in command (Lt. General) Major General - lower command rank, independent command capability (Sgt. Major General) Brigadier General - Brigade commander ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/5 "2014-02-06T00:04:01Z")
At one point, the principal officers in a unit were the captain, the lieutenant, and the sergeant. A captain of captains was a “captain general,” which led to the use of “general” in general. The general’s assistant was a. “Lieutenant general,” in the same way that a captain’s aide was a lieutenant. An important sergeant became a “sergeant-major” and that also became doubled as a “sergeant-major general,” which was eventually made into two ranks, “major” and “major general.” A major general is lower than a Lieutenant General because a lieutenant is higher than a sergeant major. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/6 "2014-02-06T00:06:43Z")
I’ll bet the OP had no trouble deciding which forum to put this question in. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/7 "2014-02-06T00:11:31Z")
^ The Major Forum got deleted. Thanks guys, and to Cecil. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/8 "2014-02-06T00:28:05Z")
A “general officer” is a commander of the general force of troops. The evolution of the diffferent ranks and titles varies with the history of the different militaries that established them, but as other posters have mentioned, they mostly arose by appending “general” to an already existing field or line title. As mentioned, the oldest tradition is of the ranks Lieutenant and Captain becoming transposed into Lieutenant General and Captain General. Later on, apparently under Prussian influence, you have in other armies the field-officer ranks Major, Lieutenant Colonel, Colonel being the ones that get transposed into Major General, Lieutenant General, _Colonel_ General. After the Napoleonic age, in France there was a rationalization of the ranks by size of unit: Brigade General, Division General, Corps General, Army General. The “Brigade” level gets into a sort of overlapping grey zone and it shows in that grade. In some cases such as most British Commonwealth forces, the Brigadier is NOT a general (used to be, though); some countries like Russia and pre-WW2 Germany just skipped that title altogether and go straight from Colonel to Major General. Modern armies have tended to adopt one scale or another or combinations of them as the tactical and personnel management doctrines evolve. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/9 "2014-02-06T00:35:45Z")
While we’re here, could someone explain why we only have 5-star generals in wartime? I know the rank was created to put Ike on an equal footing with Field Marshal Montgomery, but why was it discarded? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/10 "2014-02-06T00:42:15Z")
Per Wiki: _United States military policy since the creation of a fifth star in World War II has been to award it only when a commander of U.S. forces must be equal to or of higher rank than commanders of armies from another nation under his control._ So until we have a combined force that has another country’s 5 star general in it, there isn’t a need. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/11 "2014-02-06T00:49:53Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > A “general officer” is a commander of the general force of troops. That’s what it means now, but it originated in a more general sense when a “captain of captains” was designated a captain general. > [@](#): > > Later on, apparently under Prussian influence, you have in other armies the field-officer ranks Major, Lieutenant Colonel, Colonel being the ones that get transposed into Major General, Lieutenant General, _Colonel_ General. Just a nitpick here, “major general” did not in my understanding originate from “major,” but rather both “major” and “major general” came from sergeant-major general. > [@](#): > > The “Brigade” level gets into a sort of overlapping grey zone and it shows in that grade. In some cases such as most British Commonwealth forces, the Brigadier is NOT a general (used to be, though). My understanding is that brigadier is to brigade just as colonel is to column. It was much later that some armies decided that brigadier needed to be re designated as a type of general. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/12 "2014-02-06T01:42:51Z")
Moving outside the OP: So why was H. Norman Schwarzkopf not given a fifth star during the war? He and the Khalid bin Sultan were of equal rank (they commanded multinational armies.) You had honorifics like Herman Goering (Marshall of the Reich) and the Marshalls of the Soviet Union like Zhukov and Koniev. Ike was referred to by the wartime media at least once as “general of the armies” (a sixth star?) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/13 "2014-02-06T04:12:07Z")
I have no definitive knowledge, but my impression is that the basic rule for U.S. services is that four stars is the maximum. More than that won’t be given out unless there is a very specific reason to under unusual circumstances, such as ensuring that Eisenhower is at the equivalent level of Montgomery. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/14 "2014-02-06T05:01:27Z")
[quote=“the\_diego, post:12, topic:680619”] Moving outside the OP: So why was H. Norman Schwarzkopf not given a fifth star during the war? He and the Khalid bin Sultan were of equal rank (they commanded multinational armies.) /QUOTE] Because at the time Khalid bin Sultan was a General in the Saudi defence forces, and did not outrank Schwartzkopf. Therefore there was no need for a promotion for Schwarzkopf. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/15 "2014-02-06T06:34:46Z")
But he was commander of the Pan-Arab forces. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/16 "2014-02-06T06:40:32Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > Ike was referred to by the wartime media at least once as “general of the armies” (a sixth star?) Um, no. The official title of an officer with 4 stars is “Admiral” or “General”. The official title of an officer with 5 stars is “Fleet Admiral” or “General of the Army”. Ike only had 5 stars. I’m pretty sure when they created the 5 star grades, they had to bump both the Chief of Staff and the CNO to 5 stars too, because you can’t have a CoS outranked by 2 theatre commanders or the CNO outranked by CinCPac. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/17 "2014-02-06T06:56:32Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > Moving outside the OP: > So why was H. Norman Schwarzkopf not given a fifth star during the war? He and the Khalid bin Sultan were of equal rank (they commanded multinational armies.) You had honorifics like Herman Goering (Marshall of the Reich) and the Marshalls of the Soviet Union like Zhukov and Koniev. Ike was referred to by the wartime media at least once as “general of the armies” (a sixth star?) You’re confusing Eisenhower with Pershing, who was in fact, General of the Armies, and therefore was presumably in theory a 6-star general. However, Pershing is not the highest-ranking American officer. That would be George Washington. Some years back, Congress took action to ensure that Washington would forever outrank all other military officers. > **[General of the Armies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_of_the_Armies#George_Washington)** > > General of the Armies of the United States, more commonly referred to as General of the Armies, is the highest military rank in the United States. The rank has been conferred three times: to John J. Pershing in 1919, as a personal accolade for his command of the American Expeditionary Forces during World War I; to George Washington in 1976, as a posthumous honor during the United States Bicentennial celebrations; and posthumously to victorious Civil War commander Ulysses S. Grant in 2024. > The ... ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/18 "2014-02-06T06:59:02Z")
Wow, I’m one war or 17 years off. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/19 "2014-02-06T08:20:10Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > But he was commander of the Pan-Arab forces. That’s his command, not his rank. His rank was general; he did not outrank Schwarzkopf, and there was no need to promote Schwarzkopf to prevent him from being outranked. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619/20 "2014-02-06T09:13:52Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > Moving outside the OP: > So why was H. Norman Schwarzkopf not given a fifth star during the war? He and the Khalid bin Sultan were of equal rank (they commanded multinational armies.) You had honorifics like Herman Goering (Marshall of the Reich) and the Marshalls of the Soviet Union like Zhukov and Koniev. Ike was referred to by the wartime media at least once as “general of the armies” (a sixth star?) As stated he was not outranked by Khalid, they were both four star generals, Khalid was promoted to 5 stars, _after_ the war. IIRC, there was thought to similarly promoting Schwartzkopf post war as well, but was nixed. Moreover, if Schwaetzkoof had been made 5 stars, they would have had to promote Powell as well,and probably a day or so before. Bradley got his fifth star for similar reasons AFAIK. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/generals-ranks/680619.md?page=2)