Okay, Diceman. You brought up the passage. I feel the full passage should be given for the record:
Translation:
Lot: “I have to virgin daughters. I’ll bring 'em out and you can have your jollies with them. Just leave our guests alone.”
I must say that this guy is not a paragon of virtue.
That being said, I don’t see what problem there is about a logical inconsistency in the Adam/Eve/Cain story. It never said God didn’t create other people. Same for Noah. Nothing says he didn’t do some creating himself after that.
Personally, I’m agnostic and treat it as mythology, just like other religions (ancient and contemporary). It’s got a lot of bad stuff in it (like the above story with Lot, and a particularly nasty bit where God sends a couple of bears to maul 42 kids who made fun of a prophets baldness [2 Kings 2:23,24]). But a lot of it can be “explained” if you make the small concession that it’s not supposed to be an all-ecompassing account and can leave stuff out (like God creating other humans).
Yeah, I know. I’d love to know what the daughters had to say about that idea.
However, God didn’t save Lot & family because of any special redeaming values in Lot. He saved them for Abraham’s sake.
“I had a feeling that in Hell there would be mushrooms.” -The Secret of Monkey Island
I only got about halfway through this thread, partly because, as one poster stated, I don’t want to get involved in God threads, partly because I see much of these types of arguments as tail-chasing, without any resolution; in short, full of sound and fury and signifying nothing.
It also dismays me to see the snide and hurtful things written by people whose other posts I’ve found to be witty, good-natured and informative. IMHO, this type of thing only brings out the worst in people, and both sides come across sounding petty, defensive and superstitious.
To get my own feelings on the matter into the mix, I believe the Bible to be the inspired Word of God, written by individuals (hence the different literary styles). It is a moral, spiritual guidebook for life. I am not interested in scouring the world for facts to back up my faith. There are many things I don’t understand in my religion; however, I don’t believe that my relationship with God depends on my being able to fully understand everything. That’s why it’s based on faith. If it were fact-based, then all questions would be erased. Two plus two equals four, and that ends the debate, but there is no equation which equals God. If that makes me foolish or superstitious, so be it.
Scientists, when faced with something unexplainable, say they don’t know the answer yet. That’s admirable for a scientist. Christians say we see now as through a glass darkly, but one day we will see face to face. That’s bloody foolish.
I don’t claim to have all the answers, but it doesn’t hamper my ability to believe that my faith is placed in One who does have them.
The Dave-Guy
“since my daughter’s only half-Jewish, can she go in up to her knees?” J.H. Marx
Warning! This link is l-o-n-g. Those of you used to reading comic books had best not click on it. Those who read it will have to admit the guy has some points.
There’s another confusing section. I think it is Seth who says he is afraid to leave Eden because of the “other people” outside. Who are they and from where did they come… if they were the product of Adam and Eve, why would they have left Eden?
“[He] beat his fist down upon the table and hurt his hand and became so
further enraged… that he beat his fist down upon the table even harder and
hurt his hand some more.” – Joseph Heller’s Catch-22
The Bible took quite some time to write.Were there 50 authors?Maybe more?What are the chances they all got their story dictated correctly(by God, presumably)AND that nobody edited it later?
If you decide to believe in the God of the Bible, the general principles are drawn out somewhat consistently.Pretty good for such an old story.Most mythology, for example, is just a fairy tale after a similar process.
I’m a biologist and RC. correct me if I’m wrong, it says some where one of God’s years is equal to 1000 of a man. Isnt it possible that the creation story is on the smae kind of time scale, ie each stage took place in one of His days rather than one of ours which is how we have taken it. God must have created time at some point but it doesnt mention any where that one day of creation makes one of our days. Anyway thats one way I can continue to have my faith and my work.
Oh I forgot, in genesis one, it doesnt mention the number of humans created by God, it just says He created men and women in the image of Himself. it could be that Adam and Eve were just used as an example of how all the men and women had sinned in Genesis two
The Bible specifically says “days,” and refers to “the sunrise and sunset being the th day.” If that doesn’t mean a literal 24-hour day, I don’t know what does.
It really doesn’t matter, the time scale is still off by a factor of many millions of years using your idea.
As is the order of when certain living creatures arose, and as a biologist, you know that.
** Phil D. **
“Not only is the world queerer than we imagine,
it is queerer than we can imagine.”
–J.B.S. Haldane
First) You cannot take the bible to be literal. Example shown two stories of creation. In the gosples one says BOTH thieves taunted Jesus. Another says only ONE thief did. IT DIDN’T HAPPEN BOTH WAYS. It was one or the other.
Second) The bible, by it’s very name means books. It isn’t ONE book it is many.Psalms is poetry. Revelations is imagry these are books unto themselves. Reason demands you don’t take a psalm with the same force of a comandmet.
Third) Meanings change over time. Who knows what “cool” “hip” and other slang will mean 2000 years from now. The best interpetations are that interpetations.
Finally) Regarding incest. There are many examples of children born between brothers and sisters, fathers and daughters and cousins.These kids are in everyway normal. Incest doesn’t mean you will have a “Monster” for a kid. It just means the chances for genetic flaws are multiplied much.
Mark, as you might have noticed, this thread is somewhat old (it dates back to before the Great Debates forum existed). You’re probably better off jumping into one of the several related threads currently active in Great Debates.
