# Genie
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genie/9770
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [August 10, 1999, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genie/9770 "1999-08-10T06:44:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 17
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)
#### Post date: [August 10, 1999, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genie/9770/1 "1999-08-10T06:44:00Z")
Seems I recall in the early '70’s a story about a girl isolated and abused for 12 years. She was denied language and could barely function. Anyone know what became of her. Also was it ever decided if she was like she was because she was abused or was she retarded and therefore abused because of it?
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### Author:  [@Erroneous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erroneous)
#### Post date: [August 10, 1999, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genie/9770/2 "1999-08-10T11:45:00Z")
Wow, something I can actually begin to answer. Although you could probably find much, much more information on this in about three minutes, by doing a net search. Oh well.
As far as I know, she’s still alive. She did eventually learn to talk, but her language skills are very poor. Psychologists like it when this sort of thing turns up; in this case, it gave them a chance to see what happens when a child isn’t taught how to speak at all.
And I don’t think she was retarded to begin with. I think her parents (her father, especially…he would make aggressive growling noises at her) were just psychotic.
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### Author:  [@SkeptiJess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkeptiJess)
#### Post date: [August 10, 1999, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genie/9770/3 "1999-08-10T15:19:00Z")
Here is a link to the transcript of a “Nova” episode on Genie’s case. It is a really tragic story.
[http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2112gchild.html](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2112gchild.html)
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```
Jess
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Full of 'satiable curtiosity
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### Author:  [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)
#### Post date: [August 10, 1999, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genie/9770/4 "1999-08-10T22:21:00Z")
When was the original broadcast? It says 1977 but I saw that show in 1995 and it looked dated at the time. More importantly did anyone ever inform an educated opinion if she was isolated because she was retarded or retarded because she was isolated. The former seems to be a stronger case for me but I have limited knowledge of the case.
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### Author:  [@SkeptiJess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkeptiJess)
#### Post date: [August 10, 1999, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genie/9770/5 "1999-08-10T22:50:00Z")
There is a book about the case – _Genie: A Scientific Tragedy_, 1993. I haven’t read it, but plan to look for it on my next library trip.
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```
Jess
```
Full of 'satiable curtiosity
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### Author:  [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)
#### Post date: [August 11, 1999, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genie/9770/6 "1999-08-11T01:10:00Z")
Just finished reading the Nova transcript of the Genie case…broke my heart. What a God awful waste and a shame. Really sad.
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An optimist sees an opportunity in every calamity; A pessimist sees a calamity in every opportunity.
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### Author:  [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)
#### Post date: [August 11, 1999, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genie/9770/7 "1999-08-11T02:23:00Z")
If anyone knows of a good book about the case please E-Mail me. [Mark-is-King@webtv.net](mailto:Mark-is-King@webtv.net)
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### Author:  [@SkeptiJess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkeptiJess)
#### Post date: [August 11, 1999, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genie/9770/8 "1999-08-11T14:55:00Z")
Mark, you must have missed my previous post when you responded. I forgot to mention the author’s name – Russ Rymer. Don’t know if it’s a GOOD book, though. I haven’t yet read it.
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```
Jess
```
Full of 'satiable curtiosity
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### Author:  [@Nickrz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nickrz)
#### Post date: [August 11, 1999, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genie/9770/9 "1999-08-11T19:50:00Z")
Was this case the inspiration for Jodie Foster’s movie “Nell”?
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### Author:  [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2000, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genie/9770/10 "2000-04-05T01:02:00Z")
They’re re-running this on Nova on PBS today, so I thought I see if anyone had any new thoughts on this
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### Author:  [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2000, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genie/9770/11 "2000-04-05T01:20:00Z")
How coincidental.
Right this very moment, the case you’re speaking about is on PBS here in Minneapolis.
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### Author:  [@Jeannie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeannie)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2000, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genie/9770/12 "2000-04-05T01:56:00Z")
Just thought I’d toss in my two cents:
I didn’t read the transcripts, but I remember one of my psych professors telling of a similar case (actually, maybe the same one). Basically, the early years of childhood are when we learn to speak and understand on a basic level. Once those years (I think up to age seven, but I don’t have a referance handy) are gone, you’re out of luck. So if she was kept isolated for that long, that’s probably what caused her to be that way. It has something to do with the biology of the brain and neurons making connections and all kinds of stuff I don’t remember off hand anymore. If those connections aren’t made by a certain time, they’ll never be made.
As I said, the above is what I remember from four or five years ago. When I get a chance, I’ll have to look up that story. How terribly sad.
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I never hate myself in the morning. I sleep till noon.
–Sig line courtesy of Wally 🙂
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### Author:  [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2000, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genie/9770/13 "2000-04-05T06:41:00Z")
I actually took a class at UCLA from the person who wrote a book on Genie. She was a linguistics professor and was more interested in how she obtained language skills rather than the specifics of how she became so isolated.
Surprisingly, the professor did not assign her own book for us to read, so I don’t have it to refer to. It is titled “Genie : a psycholinguistic study of a modern-day ‘wild child’”. It was published in 1977 by Academic Press.
I took the class nearly 15 years ago and I remember being fascinated by her discussions of how Genie learned (not very successfully) to communicate, but sadly I cannot come up with any specifics about Genie. (I got an A in the class so I apparently paid enough attention at that time.)
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### Author:  [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2000, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genie/9770/14 "2000-04-05T14:37:00Z")
Hmm, odd coincidence, there was a rebroadcast of that show or one like it just last night.
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### Author:  [@Ursa\_Major](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ursa_Major)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2000, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genie/9770/15 "2000-04-05T15:09:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Basically, the early years of childhood are when we learn to speak and understand on a basic level. Once those years (I think up to age seven, but I don’t have a referance handy) are gone, you’re out of luck.
That is why Johnny Weismuller’s Tarzan is more believable than Ron Ely’s.
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### Author:  [@Absynthetic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absynthetic)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2000, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genie/9770/16 "2000-04-05T22:09:00Z")
_Genie: A Scientific Tragedy By Russ Rymer_
I’ve read this book within the last few months, and also watched the Nova episode last night.
I thought the book was actually very interesting, and reasonably well-written. The focus certainly is on the tragedy of Genie’s case, and the people and theories that were behind both the scientific studies of her development and her therapy. Rymer really explores what went wrong with the way the studies were handled, and gives a good account of the infighting, jealousy, and academic competiviness that created an environment where Genie the girl became secondary to Genie the case study. There were also nice details about Genie’s background at home and about her parents.
I would recommend it if you want a narrative about the case. If you are looking for a detailed scientific study about Genie and her development, this is not the right book to read. While I don’t think the book was dramatized in any way, it certainly is broad and humanistic, instead of scientific.
I was excited by seeing the documentary, because the book has no pictures at all, and I found that seeing the show last night has fleshed out my image of Genie. Rymer describes her walk, for instance, but _seeing_ how she moved was much more heartbreaking and dramatic than the decription I read. I also was fascinated last night at hearing her voice…so much of what was studied about Genie were her linguistic abilities, and you certainly can’t get a true sense of her funny, sliding speech in the pages of a book, however well written it may be.
The two - book and show - have given me a detailed, although undoubtedly biased, view of what certainly was a tragic episode in American Science.
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Applying computer technology is simply finding the right wrench to
pound in the correct screw.
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### Author:  [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)
#### Post date: [April 5, 2000, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genie/9770/17 "2000-04-05T22:23:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Originally posted by Nickrz:
> **Was this case the inspiration for Jodie Foster’s movie “Nell”?**
The story of Nell is fictional, and was based on a play by Mark Handley called “Idioglossia.” Mark Handley is credited for co-writing the screenplay.
I remember reading a long article about Genie last year in a magazine. I could have sworn it was the Atlantic Monthly, but I can’t find it on their web page. Does anyone else remember this article?