# Genital mutilation of young girls. But it's a religious thing! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 23, 2017, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057 "2017-04-23T11:44:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/321 "2018-12-01T15:40:09Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Let’s be clear about this: it’s possible for FGM victims, even those with infibulation, to have orgasms through the g-spot or nipple stimulation. It eliminates the ability to have a particular _type_ of orgasm (via the clitoris). This is no way justifies the practice of course, but it’s not neccesarily true that infibulation victims completely lose the ability to enjoy sex. Well, as long as some can still enjoy sex, that’s all right then. Let’s go back to talking about the tragedy of reduced sensitivity of the glans. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/322 "2018-12-01T16:10:31Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Well, as long as some can still enjoy sex, that’s all right then. Let’s go back to talking about the tragedy of reduced sensitivity of the glans. Obviously everybody is being perfectly consistent in this thread, and there’s no cultural bias causing us to have double standards. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/323 "2018-12-01T16:16:28Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Obviously everybody is being perfectly consistent in this thread, and there’s no cultural bias causing us to have double standards. If there is only one subject-Female Genital Mutilation-then so called “double standards” cannot apply, can they? What you are looking for is a thread just titled “Genital Mutilation”. If you can’t find it, go start it. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/324 "2018-12-01T17:50:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If there is only one subject-Female Genital Mutilation-then so called “double standards” cannot apply, can they? What you are looking for is a thread just titled “Genital Mutilation”. If you can’t find it, go start it. Once again, this is not a generic FGM thread. It’s regarding a specific case and the legal issue behind it. That a very similar procedure (in THIS case) is legal and widely accepted is totally relevant. The OP’s first two sentences are “Religious freedom my ass. I hope this doctor gets jailtime.” I’m sure you and/or others have reported the “dick” posts that have your ire up. Looks like the mods disagree with you. So, how about YOU go start a general FGM thread and STFU? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/325 "2018-12-01T18:39:00Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Let’s be clear about this: it’s possible for FGM victims, even those with infibulation, to have orgasms through the g-spot or nipple stimulation. It eliminates the ability to have a particular _type_ of orgasm (via the clitoris). This is no way justifies the practice of course, but it’s not neccesarily true that infibulation victims completely lose the ability to enjoy sex. Do you have any idea what [infibulation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation#Type_III) actually entails? > [@](#): > > The element of speed and surprise is vital and the circumciser immediately grabs the clitoris by pinching it between her nails aiming to amputate it with a slash. The organ is then shown to the senior female relatives of the child who will decide whether the amount that has been removed is satisfactory or whether more is to be cut off. > > After the clitoris has been satisfactorily amputated … the circumciser can proceed with the total removal of the labia minora and the paring of the inner walls of the labia majora. Since the entire skin on the inner walls of the labia majora has to be removed all the way down to the perineum, this becomes a messy business. By now, the child is screaming, struggling, and bleeding profusely, which makes it difficult for the circumciser to hold with bare fingers and nails the slippery skin and parts that are to be cut or sutured together. … > > Having ensured that sufficient tissue has been removed to allow the desired fusion of the skin, the circumciser pulls together the opposite sides of the labia majora, ensuring that the raw edges where the skin has been removed are well approximated. The wound is now ready to be stitched or for thorns to be applied. If a needle and thread are being used, close tight sutures will be placed to ensure that a flap of skin covers the vulva and extends from the mons veneris to the perineum, and which, after the wound heals, will form a bridge of scar tissue that will totally occlude the vaginal introitus. TL;DR – the entire clitoris, hood and all, is lopped off, as is the labia, and whatever’s left is sewn together, with just a small opening to allow urination and menstruation. Quite honestly, _pleasure_ from sex is a woman’s least concern here – excruciating pain is the norm. Feeling nothing would actually be a benefit in this kind of situation. And that doesn’t even begin to describe the dangers involved with pregnancy and childbirth, not to mention infections, cysts, scarring, tissue damage, possible gangrene etc – that she’ll have to worry about through the rest of her life. Besides, this idea that women have different “types” of orgasms has been discredited long ago. I don’t know any woman who can do so soly by breast stimulation, and the existance of the [g-spot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-spot) is largely anecdotal. (Possibly even a myth) Most women do NOT experience orgasms via internal stimulation alone, and have often felt like there was something wrong with them when they didn’t. (At least, when they talked to people like YOU) You motherfucking selfish, stupid, little bastard. Go fuck yourself with a broken piece of glass. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/326 "2018-12-01T21:59:07Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Do you have any idea what [infibulation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation#Type_III) actually entails? > > \*\*TL;DR – the entire clitoris, hood and all, is lopped off, as is the labia, and whatever’s left is sewn together, with just a small opening to allow urination and menstruation. > > Quite honestly, _pleasure_ from sex is a woman’s least concern here – excruciating pain is the norm. Feeling nothing would actually be a benefit in this kind of situation.\*\* > > And that doesn’t even begin to describe the dangers involved with pregnancy and childbirth, not to mention infections, cysts, scarring, tissue damage, possible gangrene etc – that she’ll have to worry about through the rest of her life. > Besides, this idea that women have different “types” of orgasms has been discredited long ago. I don’t know any woman who can do so soly by breast stimulation, and the existance of the [g-spot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-spot) is largely anecdotal. (Possibly even a myth) > > Most women do NOT experience orgasms via internal stimulation alone, and have often felt like there was something wrong with them when they didn’t. (At least, when they talked to people like YOU) > > You motherfucking selfish, stupid, little bastard. Go fuck yourself with a broken piece of glass. If I may add to the bolded part a bit. This is done so the man is guaranteed a virgin. He then gets to rip that small opening to shreds with his dick. Oh, my, I hope he hasn’t lost any sensitivity in his glans because, of course, that’s what’s important in any discussion of FGM. /sarcasm You really are a piece of shit, Blalron. ---
**Author:** ![Modesty\_Blaise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Modesty\_Blaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Modesty_Blaise)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/327 "2018-12-01T22:05:40Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Do you have any idea what [infibulation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation#Type_III) actually entails? > > TL;DR – the entire clitoris, hood and all, is lopped off, as is the labia, and whatever’s left is sewn together, with just a small opening to allow urination and menstruation. > > Quite honestly, _pleasure_ from sex is a woman’s least concern here – excruciating pain is the norm. Feeling nothing would actually be a benefit in this kind of situation. > > And that doesn’t even begin to describe the dangers involved with pregnancy and childbirth, not to mention infections, cysts, scarring, tissue damage, possible gangrene etc – that she’ll have to worry about through the rest of her life. > Besides, this idea that women have different “types” of orgasms has been discredited long ago. I don’t know any woman who can do so soly by breast stimulation, and the existance of the [g-spot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-spot) is largely anecdotal. (Possibly even a myth) > > Most women do NOT experience orgasms via internal stimulation alone, and have often felt like there was something wrong with them when they didn’t. (At least, when they talked to people like YOU) > > You motherfucking selfish, stupid, little bastard. Go fuck yourself with a broken piece of glass. Great post! ---
**Author:** ![Modesty\_Blaise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Modesty\_Blaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Modesty_Blaise)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/328 "2018-12-01T22:11:52Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > If I may add to the bolded part a bit. This is done so the man is guaranteed a virgin. He then gets to rip that small opening to shreds with his dick. Oh, my, I hope he hasn’t lost any sensitivity in his glans because, of course, that’s what’s important in any discussion of FGM. /sarcasm > > You really are a piece of shit, Blalron. Another great post. Yes, we really must focus on how awful it is for _men_. :mad::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/329 "2018-12-01T22:19:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Then maybe you should shut up until you learn how to convey a message. :smack: You and a bunch of others are either blithering idiots or are willfully misreading the very clear intent of what Blalron pisted. Maybe a little of both. > [@Modesty\_Blaise](#): > > One is done to control females and their sexual autonomy. It’s extremely misogynistic and harmful to females. It’s common that this results in women living in pain for the rest of their lives. > > The other is done because of tradition and misinformation. It’s not done to exert control over male sexuality. Wrong. Among American gentiles, it became prevalent precisely to curb male masturbation. Then it just became a blind tradition to match fathers and sons, as FGM has become for mothers and daughters. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/330 "2018-12-01T23:04:38Z")
**Blalron** basically waived aside the severe horror that is infibulation, with his (false) assertions that “well, she can still enjoy sex!” SOMEONE’s a blithering idiot here, but I don’t think it’s **Czarcasm**. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > Then it just became a blind tradition to match fathers and sons, as FGM has become for mothers and daughters. Um, no FGM is still done for the sake of controlling women sexually, and unless they were planning on being eunuchs to the Chinese Empress, those men never had their dicks completely chopped off with rusty razor blades! ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/331 "2018-12-01T23:20:04Z")
Of course, if they did have their dicks cut off with rusty razor blades, I’m sure they would still enjoy nipple and prostate stimulation, so no harm, no foul, right? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/332 "2018-12-01T23:34:01Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Blalron** basically waived aside the severe horror that is infibulation, with his (false) assertions that “well, she can still enjoy sex!” SOMEONE’s a blithering idiot here, but I don’t think it’s **Czarcasm**. > > Um, no FGM is still done for the sake of controlling women sexually, and unless they were planning on being eunuchs to the Chinese Empress, those men never had their dicks completely chopped off with rusty razor blades! The following is in the OP. It is a snippet of the linked to article: > [@](#): > > The attorney for a Detroit-area doctor accused of mutilating the genitals of young girls acknowledges that her client performed the procedure, but she says it was part of a religious practice. > > The revelation came during a detention hearing on Monday, a few days after Jumana Nagarwala was charged in what authorities say is the first case of its kind in the country. Shannon Smith said in federal court in Michigan that her client removed the girls’ genital membrane as part of a custom practiced by the Dawoodi Bohra, a small sect of Indian Muslims of which Nagarwala is a part, the Detroit Free-Press reported. More regarding India’s Dawoodi Bohra community: > [@](#): > > Although there is no mention of khatna in the Quran, many Bohras believe it is a religious obligation, pointing to texts such as the Hadith — describing the words, actions and habits of the Prophet Muhammad. > > Perhaps just as important, the Syedna, the community’s spiritual leader, is a staunch proponent of the tradition. “Ultimately, the bottom line is that the practice exists because there’s a clear dictate from the Syedna. If tomorrow the Syedna were to say not to do it, they wouldn’t do it,” said Ranalvi. > > But for some khatna supporters, it is not as simple as following the words of the religious leader alone. Circumcision is a long-standing tradition in Islam dating back thousands of years to the time when the Prophet Abraham accepted the commandments of God and was asked to purify himself. > > This purification required him to cut his hair and his nails and to be circumcised, explained Fatima, a member of Dawoodi Bohra Women for Religious Freedom (DBWRF), a group of pro-khatna women who asked that her real name not be used for fear of reprisal in her community. Since then, circumcision for men has become obligatory in both the Jewish and Muslim faiths. > **[In India's Dawoodi Bohra community, there's a growing debate about FGM - The...](https://theworld.org/stories/2018/07/19/fgm-india)** > > At 7 years old, like thousands of Bohra girls before her, Masooma Ranalvi, now 51, underwent female circumcision. And, like the thousands of young girls before her, she too, was lured by women in her family with the promise of an outing to get ice... There is no indication that the reason this sect of Muslims is performing this procedure is to control women sexually. In post 84 I posted regarding how the intent may have been to enhance a woman’s pleasure. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/333 "2018-12-02T00:02:47Z")
Enhance a woman’s pleasure! Oh, sure! Good one. ---
**Author:** ![Modesty\_Blaise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Modesty\_Blaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Modesty_Blaise)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/334 "2018-12-02T00:33:59Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > The following is in the OP. It is a snippet of the linked to article: > More regarding India’s Dawoodi Bohra community: > > [In India's Dawoodi Bohra community, there's a growing debate about FGM - The World from PRX](https://www.pri.org/stories/2018-08-02/indias-dawoodi-bohra-community-theres-growing-debate-about-fgm) > > There is no indication that the reason this sect of Muslims is performing this procedure is to control women sexually. In post 84 I posted regarding how the intent may have been to enhance a woman’s pleasure. There aren’t enough eyerolls. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/335 "2018-12-02T01:21:25Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > Once again, this is not a generic FGM thread. It’s regarding a specific case and the legal issue behind it. That a very similar procedure (in THIS case) is legal and widely accepted is totally relevant. The OP’s first two sentences are “Religious freedom my ass. I hope this doctor gets jailtime.” > > I’m sure you and/or others have reported the “dick” posts that have your ire up. Looks like the mods disagree with you. So, how about YOU go start a general FGM thread and STFU? No. FGM and male circumcision are not “a very similar procedure.” We’ve covered this over and over, and continuing to lie about this does not help you. This is the goddamned fucking Pit. Of course the mods aren’t going to stop you. That doesn’t mean that what you are doing is not a fucking hijack. It just means it’s up to us to tell you off. You are hijacking this thread. The OP, from the title on, is about FGM. It is not about your penis and your psychological-only feelings of inadequacy. Stop being a selfish prick and let us discuss this. If you want a thread on how horrible male circumcision is, open one. Continue in this thread, and we’ll just treat you like the selfish, misogynistic bastards you are. NOT EVERYTHING HAS TO BE CHANGED TO BE ABOUT MEN. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/336 "2018-12-02T01:47:10Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No. FGM and male circumcision are not “a very similar procedure.” We’ve covered this over and over, and continuing to lie about this does not help you. > > This is the goddamned fucking Pit. Of course the mods aren’t going to stop you. That doesn’t mean that what you are doing is not a fucking hijack. It just means it’s up to us to tell you off. > > You are hijacking this thread. The OP, from the title on, is about FGM. It is not about your penis and your psychological-only feelings of inadequacy. Stop being a selfish prick and let us discuss this. > > If you want a thread on how horrible male circumcision is, open one. Continue in this thread, and we’ll just treat you like the selfish, misogynistic bastards you are. > > NOT EVERYTHING HAS TO BE CHANGED TO BE ABOUT MEN. Instead of being hypocritical with thread purity in the pit, because you clowns sure don’t afford anyone else any respect, how about you start a new thread where hijacks are moderated more forcefully? How hard can that be? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/337 "2018-12-02T01:57:29Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > I realize making this comparison is going to emotionally trigger people. And why might that be? > [@Ramira](#): > > No thanks, have fun making them dance. they do not ever learn here. > > tldr. lol tl;dr > [@SlackerInc](#): > > If it only happened before you can remember, and you had an entire society insisting it was a normal thing that needed to be done to all boys, you’d likely have a different outlook on it (unless you were part of a protesting and unfairly ridiculed minority like Blalron). And if young boys having sex with Catholic priests was considered by society to be a wholesome, normal step in boys’ development to adulthood, many would likely have a different outlook on the practice. Oooh, this is fun! Do, uhh, let’s see, “Child porn” next! > [@Blalron](#): > > In this conversation, I feel the same level of frustration that an Abolitionist must have felt talking to a South Carolina cotton plantation owner in the 1850s. You lose all credibility with this. It’s now the 22nd time you’ve destroyed your credibility in this thread alone. 🙂 > [@Blalron](#): > > “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” - Jiddu Krishnamurti And I’ve never liked this saying. I believe that it is indicative of an independent strong, robust state of health to be able to fully adapt, become well-adjusted, to a profoundly sick society. We sometimes cannot control where we are, we only have control over ourselves. Humans are the ultimate ‘adapters’. Adjusting to adverse, even decaying conditions, successfully, is what we do. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > BTW, puzzlegal: the people who have those other disabilities presumably didn’t get them from a pervasive, culturally prescribed elective surgery inflicted on them in infancy and still prevalent (if somewhat less so) in their adulthood. Blalron’s not just bellyaching about his own situation, he is trying to save others. Good for him! I have had several people tell me I convinced them not to circ their sons, something I am extremely proud of. Well why don’t you start helping him out to get BETTER at his persuasive skills. He’d learn from the best, ehh? > [@andros](#): > > I think it’s more that men are talking about their penises–as usual. Minimizing FGM is just a side effect to “My Junk Is Important, Pay Attention To It!!” Hey. Don’t even joke about my Junk. Shit’s totally cereal. > [@UCBearcats](#): > > Anyone who does this or allows this should have their throat cut slowly with s full, rusty knife. _Well! That escalated quickly_ > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I chipped in on the other thread that was closed (the one about male genital mutilation/circumcision) and quite rightly the subject of FGM was brought up there as well. I simply don’t think that either can be considered in isolation. > > Is the damage caused by the most common forms of FGM greater than that of MGM? yes. Of course. I don’t think that anyone on any side is claiming otherwise. If there is a priority order in which to tackle the problems then of course deal with the most harmful first, the one most easily and unequivocally harmful and damaging. > > However, what you cannot do is pretend that the two subject are not intrinsically linked, that the discussion of one does not take you inexorably, ultimately, into a consideration of the other. > In both cases you are dealing with cultural and religious practices, inflicted on non-consenting children that manifestly change their bodies in irreversible ways. > If you are arguing against any and all forms and severity of FGM under any circumstances then you are implicitly arguing against MGM as well and denying that is a hypocrisy that needs to be addressed. If you suggest that milder forms of FGM may be allowable for cultural and religious reasons then you are implicitly drawing an equivalence to MGM and using it as an example of what is permissible. . Just because the two practices are intrinsically linked doesn’t mean a thoughtful conversation can’t take place concerning the the ‘highest priority’ and ‘most damaging’ of those two, admittedly linked, practices. I feel like the complaints are that such a conversation has not seemed possible heretofore. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/338 "2018-12-02T02:35:40Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Blalron** basically waived aside the severe horror that is infibulation, with his (false) assertions that “well, she can still enjoy sex!” Okay, so you really are that dense. _sigh_ Let me ask you a very simple question: Has Blalron ever said or intimated that male circumcision is something that can be “waived (sic) aside” because most circumcised men can enjoy sex? I haven’t read as many of his posts as you guys have, but I’m going to go out on a limb and say the answer is “no”, and in fact very much to the contrary. Which means that he was, as any thinking person would know, NOT saying infibulation was NBD. He was pointing out that you can’t say **male circumcision** is NBD with the justification “circumcised men can still enjoy sex, but infibulated women cannot”. So his point was to hold up this justification as fundamentally hollow to show that an FGM apologist could make the same lame defense. It really boggles my mind that so many of you missed this very obvious rhetorical device. Jesus, get a fucking clue, people! :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/339 "2018-12-02T05:05:08Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > More regarding India’s Dawoodi Bohra community: > > [In India's Dawoodi Bohra community, there's a growing debate about FGM - The World from PRX](https://www.pri.org/stories/2018-08-02/indias-dawoodi-bohra-community-theres-growing-debate-about-fgm) > > There is no indication that the reason this sect of Muslims is performing this procedure is to control women sexually. In post 84 I posted regarding how the intent may have been to enhance a woman’s pleasure. That’s strange, because all that I’ve thought or written about this practice, as it pertains to the OP case and the Dawoodi Bohra, can be supported by your cite. Everything - the deception, the ritualized pain and trauma, the culture of silence and all of the lies surrounding the procedures, it’s all in there. So you found this story about people resisting the practice and its imposed silence, and putting up a good fight about it in India, even noting that they have been told the reason is to decrease sexual arousal…and decided to quote the self-appointed defenders of the practice, here, and pronounce that “there is no indication that the reason this sect of Muslims is performing this procedure is to control women sexually.” I dunno, maybe read it again? One indication or another might jump out at you. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057/340 "2018-12-02T05:58:31Z")
> [@Tee](#): > > That’s strange, because all that I’ve thought or written about this practice, as it pertains to the OP case and the Dawoodi Bohra, can be supported by your cite. Everything - the deception, the ritualized pain and trauma, the culture of silence and all of the lies surrounding the procedures, it’s all in there. > > So you found this story about people resisting the practice and its imposed silence, and putting up a good fight about it in India, even noting that they have been told the reason is to decrease sexual arousal…and decided to quote the self-appointed defenders of the practice, here, and pronounce that “there is no indication that the reason this sect of Muslims is performing this procedure is to control women sexually.” > > I dunno, maybe read it again? One indication or another might jump out at you. Really. > [@](#): > > Most anti-khatna activists believe that the real reason khatna is performed on women is to control them and curb their sexuality. Forty-five percent of the women included in the Sahiyo study also confirmed that they were explicitly told that the objective is “to decrease sexual arousal.” > > Still, the main reason given for khatna is for "religious purposes.” It is commonly believed that if a girl does not receive khatna, she is not considered a part of the community and is excluded from certain religious activities, such as wedding ceremonies and funerals. Worse still, explained Mubaraka Motiwala, the Mumbai activist, “the girl is not approved of and is considered unsuitable for marriage.” > > This belief — that without undergoing khatna a woman is not complete, is not pure, and is therefore not suitable for marriage — is echoed in other communities around the world where FGM is performed. > > In an article in The New York Times about FGM in the Maasai community — a tribe in Lenkisem, Kenya — journalist Jina Moore describes a similar belief, “that women aren’t women unless they are cut, which means men can’t take them as wives.” But yeah, it’s done to “enhance” a woman’s sexual pleasure: > [@](#): > > Nearly 35 percent of the women testified that khatna negatively impacted their sexual lives, and another 10 percent reported urinary problems, recurring UTIs, burning, incontinence and, in rare instances, bleeding of the clitoral hood due to the procedure. > > In 2017, Sahiyo also surveyed 385 Dawoodi Bohra women about their experiences with khatna. Participants were asked about who cut them (i.e., a health professional or someone untrained), whether they experienced pain with it and what emotions they felt as well as any longer-term effects. > > An astounding 98 percent of the women said they experienced pain after the procedure, and 35 percent reported that it had affected their sexual lives. Most notably, just over 80 percent said they are not OK with the custom continuing in their community, and 82 percent said they would not have khatna performed on their daughters. :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genital-mutilation-of-young-girls-but-its-a-religious-thing/785057.md?page=18)