# Genre Fiction Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387 "2011-05-19T01:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/221 "2011-05-24T15:23:13Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > No, it makes just as much sense if not more were he Scum. > > He knows he’s a member of ALE. He sees this CARS faction mentioned and wants to make sure Town pays attention to them as well. Or he actually genuinely thought there might be a 3rd faction besides his own I still disagree, because he characterized CARS and not ALE as the main scum. He didn’t just point out “another bad faction”, he also, if he is ALE, changed the nature of his own. (If he’s in possession of a PM that says Alignment: Alliance of evil bastards, then he can hardly rationally believe that the Alliance is a catch-all term that belongs to no specific faction.) It changes it from “basic screw-up” to “calculated misinformation campaign”, and at the moment I don’t see what he’d have to gain by that. Anyway, let’s see the color of his panties. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/222 "2011-05-24T15:24:57Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Sillier things have happened than forgetting what your alignment is. Like, say, utterly forgetting your role and misclaiming and accidentally breaking the game because of it. Or outing yourself as a remorseful vig who has to self-kill and thus giving Scum an extra kill thanks to their redirector. Not that I’ve done either of those things, or anything else silly. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/223 "2011-05-24T15:26:48Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I have been in a game with a serial killer who just annihilated Town; we lynched four scum in a row starting on day 3 (I think) and still lost because the confirmed and semi-confirmed Town were getting mowed down. I’ve also been in a game where Town lynched the SK on day one and lost on Day 5 or so. And I’ve been in a game where the Serial Killers took out half of the scum team (albeit not on purpose). An amusing game to play as town, to be sure. (How can you think that wasn’t a mistake, last game? My whole post was about Red Skeezix, not you. It made no sense as a vote against you. Freudian slip, _maybe_, but absolutely a just a glitch in the wiring.) ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/224 "2011-05-24T15:29:28Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > Side note - I’m not familiar with a potential 3rd party aspect, can someone give me a brief breakdown of how they work typically? It depends on the role. Survivors are third parties that just have to make it to end game. They aren’t typically win stealing. Mad Bombers are PFK (Playing for Keeps) and have to “tag” a certain number of players by the end of the game to win. Just as two examples off the top of my head. Someone else mentioned serial killers; again, usually PFK. It also depends on the game. Some games have an entire third PFK or third-party _faction_; Pleonast’s Conspiracy games, to a certain extent; Halloween Mafia on Idle, though we couldn’t communicate with each other; KidVermicious’ recently ended Royal Rumble on Giraffe. So how it works isn’t that easy to break down. And that’s not saying there’s either in this game, either. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/225 "2011-05-24T15:35:09Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > (How can you think that wasn’t a mistake, last game? My whole post was about Red Skeezix, not you. It made no sense as a vote against you. Freudian slip, _maybe_, but absolutely a just a glitch in the wiring.) Oh, sure. Just pointing out that scum have glitches too from time to time. I remember in random mafia going crazy when I realized that my scum buddy Oredigger had made a typo in his fake PM during the Day 1 mass claim. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/226 "2011-05-24T16:17:50Z")
I see two people want me to claim already. Is that the general consensus of the town? ---
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/227 "2011-05-24T16:31:42Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Not what I was referring to. Astral mentioned a change due to a “double hammer” (by which I assume he means the “both can die in a tie” rule). The correction needed due to that was to the win condition, which was amended in post 23. This is what’s bugging me. Astral paid enough attention to the win condition to note the “double hammer” correction, but somehow not enough attention to realize what team he was on? Even after comparing his PM to that in post 1 to agree with Ed that they didn’t match? Something doesn’t add up. This post also strikes me as having too much information: > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I’m guessing this is directed at me. Red has intimated that the color can provide hints about the game state. Since he’s now used two different ways to describe the opposing force, **I’d guess that there’s a scum team that can communicate, plus a 3rd party or two that can not communicate** , and together they form the “Associated League of Evil.” [bolding mine] Is it that standard now to have only one scum party that can communicate? I remember a number of games with multiple scum factions that could. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/228 "2011-05-24T16:31:58Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Oh, sure. Just pointing out that scum have glitches too from time to time. I remember in random mafia going crazy when I realized that my scum buddy Oredigger had made a typo in his fake PM during the Day 1 mass claim. In the game I played on FB my scum friend posted on the wrong board, no one picked him out for it though while the rest of us just held our breath lol :eek: @ **Astral** , do you really think it will make a difference if you claim? It will give us all something to talk about for sure but will you be telling the truth? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/229 "2011-05-24T16:33:40Z")
Oh, I could have told you when you first started explaining. Your only hope is to have a kickass role that town would not want to lynch automatically. Normal, I don’t know what I think. At the beginning of the day, I was willing to chalk it up to breezy townie not paying much attention because hey, he’s town. I do find some of the scenarios you and Ed have been making a little more believable than Astral’s explanation; however, I feel that he is adequately voted for and am more interested in looking to see if I can call out other scummy behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/230 "2011-05-24T16:39:21Z")
Oh, I absolutely think my claim will make a huge difference. Of course, since I"ve already said that, I’ll just go ahead and claim. I’m your friggin’ detective. Great work, town! ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/231 "2011-05-24T16:41:17Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Oh, I absolutely think my claim will make a huge difference. Of course, since I"ve already said that, I’ll just go ahead and claim. > > I’m your friggin’ detective. Great work, town! Would you hurry up and finish fabricating a fake PM to post? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/232 "2011-05-24T16:41:55Z")
And having said THAT, I’ll further explain that I really do suspect there are third parties in this game, based on my own PM. That’s why I was looking for a way to explain it using just the information in the thread. Since my PM mentions two factions, I flipped back to the first thread to see what the name of the bad guys was. And everything else happened exactly as described earlier. So, why are there likely to be third parties? I can investigate folks and find out if they’re scum. But my power is listed as “weak detective.” I asked Red what my weakness was, and he said I could only tell if they were on the scum team, not what their alignment was. Therefore, 3rd parties would show up as “not scum” to my power. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/233 "2011-05-24T16:42:37Z")
@ Inner – All right. I was rather suspicious of you a short time ago due to what seemed a long sequence of stirring the pot on Astral without commitment (consistent with Astral as third party or as screwed-up-royally town and you as scum), but when I went back to see if it was worth moving my vote, the posts prior to that seemed reasonably honest (the “I’m on the fence” one in particular). Plus you are incredibly chatty. Suspicion more-or-less retracted. @ Nesta – around here multiple scum teams are rather rare, which is not to say unheard of. But it certainly wouldn’t be my first guess. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/234 "2011-05-24T16:42:55Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Would you hurry up and finish fabricating a fake PM to post? You, um, think I’m lying? We’ll just wait for the counter-claim then. Anywhere, here’s my PM: > [@](#): > > Name: R. Daneel Olivaw > Universe/Story: The Caves of Steel > Role: Weak Cop > Alignment: Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords > Powers: Each night you may choose a player to investigate. You will learn whether or not that player is a member of the Associated League of Evil. > Wincondition: You win when all threats to the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords have been vanquished AND at least one member of the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords are alive. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/235 "2011-05-24T16:42:58Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Not what I was referring to. Astral mentioned a change due to a “double hammer” (by which I assume he means the “both can die in a tie” rule). The correction needed due to that was to the win condition, which was amended in post 23. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > NETA: This – > > Astral clearly read this at some point. Aha, quite right. Thanks. > [@SisterCoyote](#): > > It depends on the role. > > Survivors are third parties that just have to make it to end game. They aren’t typically win stealing. > > Mad Bombers are PFK (Playing for Keeps) and have to “tag” a certain number of players by the end of the game to win. > > Just as two examples off the top of my head. Someone else mentioned serial killers; again, usually PFK. > > It also depends on the game. > > Some games have an entire third PFK or third-party _faction_; Pleonast’s Conspiracy games, to a certain extent; Halloween Mafia on Idle, though we couldn’t communicate with each other; KidVermicious’ recently ended Royal Rumble on Giraffe. > > So how it works isn’t that easy to break down. > > And that’s not saying there’s either in this game, either. Thanks, that gives me enough of an idea to start, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/236 "2011-05-24T16:44:34Z")
Huh. A detective who can’t spot third parties can find precisely the same alignment info that a member of the scum team would already have. Still, **unvote** since it’s Day 1 and all. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/237 "2011-05-24T16:46:57Z")
Well, that’s not a third party PM unless third party detectives are in vogue all of a sudden. That claim would be trivial for scum to fake, though. **unvote** Let’s see what happens. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/238 "2011-05-24T16:47:41Z")
Really? **TWO** people now think I’m lying, even though my role is exactly in line with what I was trying to do before I had to claim? What did I do, set this up specifically so I’d have to claim? Again, we’ll just wait for the inevitable counter-claim. Since it’s never coming, I’d suggest you look for other people to lynch. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/239 "2011-05-24T16:53:44Z")
fwiw, I believe you. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/240 "2011-05-24T17:03:20Z")
Oof, someone’s cranky. And if you were looking at it from our perspective you’d be just as suspicious as normal and tom; don’t deny it, I’ve seen you play. Now, why don’t you share with us who you’d like to lynch so far today? If we can’t have you, throw us somebody else. Normal, I’m unemployed for the next few weeks and finished with school. I have nothing else to do but refresh the thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=13)