# Genre Fiction Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387 "2011-05-19T01:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/301 "2011-05-25T01:51:33Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > Nevertheless, I still find it hard to believe that a scum or third party would announce that their wincon was different. Why would they do that? How long was it since I claimed that my wincon was different until he did? If Astral were Scum, he would know that I had no reason to lie about that, and so, might agree with me to get in early on the people saying so. I dunno, it’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/302 "2011-05-25T02:20:37Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > And no follow-up questions? I certainly would have followed up with: Is there a difference between their alignment and whether they are on the scum team? Cause that sounds like the same thing to me. Did Red really mean that a full cop investigates and determines their role? Sorry I didn’t ask any questions Red was unlikely to answer. > [@Pleonast](#): > > You have misquoted me for apparently scummy purposes. The full quote is: > > Note the sentence you elided? That is what I was referring to when I said “normally, I would advocate lynching”. > > And, yes, I do normally advocate lynching a player who makes a safe, convenient claim. Those are exactly the sort of claims scum make to avoid being lynched. Sorry, I took out the sentence because I thought it wasn’t important. I assumed we were talking specifically about claims like mine: that is, cops. You claim you would normally lynch, but in this case, you won’t, because I’m a cop. I thought it interesting that you would say “Normally when somebody claims cop, I’d lynch, but since he claimed cop, I won’t.” You say my purposes are apparently scummy. May I ask what purposes those are? And how they’re scummy? > [@special\_ed](#): > > but most damning of all… > > 1. He posted earlier that he thought that the 3rd parties were all part of the ALE, and yet, his PM very clearly states that he can detect ALE members, so why would he think he could detect only Scum and not 3rd party? I could say that I’ve already answered this, that my power’s weakness indicates we may very well be dealing with third parties, and that if I thought the slumdwellers were the scum team name, the ALE would be an overarching name for all of town’s enemies, that I was going only on my misreading of the first post. Instead, I’ll say that I just got back from Thor, and it was pretty awesome. I’m really looking forward to the Avengers movie. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/303 "2011-05-25T03:13:46Z")
I’m not quite convinced of **Astral’s** story, but I wouldn’t want to lynch a cop on the first day, so I don’t want to vote for them yet. Maybe later. If not **Astral** , who else is looking scummy? Anyone else want to do something seriously dodgy and then try to talk their way out of it, so I have someone to vote for? ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/304 "2011-05-25T03:31:42Z")
Could someone please explain what WiFoM means? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/305 "2011-05-25T03:38:47Z")
Wine in Front of Me. It describes those I know that you know but you know that I know that you know but I know that you know that I know that you know that I know situations. It’s from The Princess Bride where Vizzini must choose the wine with the poison in it and no matter which logical deductions he makes, the end result is that he has to guess. Pleo’s statement that he is a power role becomes a wifom for scum because maybe he is and maybe he isn’t. If he isn’t then they waste a nightkill on a vanilla but if he is then maybe he’s saying it in order to get them to attack him because he is a strong man or some other role that will keep him safe and or confirm alignment. Or a plethora of other situations. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/306 "2011-05-25T03:44:36Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > Could someone please explain what WiFoM means? I’ve been doing WAY too much reading about Mafia tonight, haven’t even done the homework I was suppose to do (which I’m so going to pay for later!) But, here is a good description: [WIFOM - MafiaWiki](http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Wine_In_Front_Of_Me) ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/307 "2011-05-25T03:47:26Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Sorry I didn’t ask any questions Red was unlikely to answer. I still find it hard to swallow that you were curious enough to ask a question in the first place, but not curious enough to ask a follow-up when the answer, at least to me, made no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/308 "2011-05-25T03:47:36Z")
I remember a Princess Bride game where the scum team had a poisoner who could poison one person every night, but they had to have said wifom or wine in one of their posts the preceding Day. Man, was that a crazy game. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/309 "2011-05-25T04:18:17Z")
Thanks. Nice link, **Hirka**. I would also spend a silly amount of time reading there, if I didn’t have so much homework to do. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/310 "2011-05-25T04:23:46Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > Thanks. Nice link, **Hirka**. I would also spend a silly amount of time reading there, if I didn’t have so much homework to do. You’re the smart one then. I have 2 topic presentations and a journal club to prepare for this rotation. But, at least I can say “24 days to graduation!!!” ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/311 "2011-05-25T05:08:45Z")
sorry i haven’t been on. between work and the start of school, my schedule doesn’t leave me much time to play. i’ll be in and out for the next couple of days. my take so far: i agree that **Astral** is probably scum or 3rd party. between his ‘slip’ and claimed role there is inconsistency. we can opt to look for scum elsewhere but who? i doubt scum would rock the boat now and bring attention to themselves. the only one else who got my attention was **Hirka** for questioning **Ed** ’s reasoning which IMO is logical. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/312 "2011-05-25T05:50:37Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > i agree that **Astral** is probably scum or 3rd party. between his ‘slip’ and claimed role there is inconsistency. Why aren’t you voting for me, then? ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/313 "2011-05-25T06:56:25Z")
I must say that I am not happy about anyone claiming a role like the detective (even a weak one) without knowing if there is a doctor in the game, or even a watcher. It makes me very uncomfortable, especially so early on the first day. I am not really sure what to make of it. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/314 "2011-05-25T07:02:46Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > I included a non-win-stealing jester once. > > it was Idle Thoughts. > > never again Hey, at least I won with that role, haha. ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/315 "2011-05-25T09:03:12Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Why aren’t you voting for me, then? it’s still early in the Day. something may yet happen but if you want me to, i’ll oblige. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/316 "2011-05-25T12:45:25Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I must say that I am not happy about anyone claiming a role like the detective (even a weak one) without knowing if there is a doctor in the game, or even a watcher. It makes me very uncomfortable, especially so early on the first day. I am not really sure what to make of it. Well, I’m not trying be “astral’s defender”, but his butt is on the line. I claimed detective in the last game without being sure we had a doctor. I suspected we did, but wasn’t sure. Of course, my claim was far more believable…and was true. I suspect Astral is either scum or 3rd party, though. > [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/583240/1): > > Really Good game and I have Every day I play this games with my brother. Awwww…how sweet. Huh? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/317 "2011-05-25T13:03:35Z")
I still can’t decide about Astral. In the meantime: **vote: Sister Coyote** Very low signal-to-noise ratio. The raised eyebrow at Mahaloth early on is the closest she comes to directly engaging with any player on substance. I’m thinking the Astral situation has to be difficult for the scum regardless of Astral’s own alignment; and ignoring it as much as possible is one way they might be tempted to deal with it. Of those who have enough posts to evaluate, SisC most closely fits that “talk around the problem” profile. 108 – first game here, what’s SOP, hammers are OK 112 – fluff about Halloween mafia, raised eyebrow at Mahaloth’s noose thing 114 – 4-5 scum, too early to guess about power roles 121 – IS said what she was thinking about Mahaloth’s proposal, thanks to Tom for explanation of “PFK” 152 – in most games color is color, but Red said it might be different here 222 – fluff about silly things she’s done in mafia games (response to IS saying stranger things have happened than forgetting your alignment) 224 – explains third parties to fubbleskag 268 – Astral could be jester, though Red probably wouldn’t do that, but she could be wrong 287 – correction to Hirka saying due to Astral’s claim, roles and powers do align: if Astral’s not lying, they do in this instance only, Red’s too good a mod to make it extremely obvious. comments on Pleo’s magic bag, is a null tell for him 288 – didn’t play in Screamers, can’t comment **Winston Smith** also fits; I’m voting SisC over him not least because I think I have a better chance of reading her response than his, but it’s worth bringing up. Here are his posts: 214 – (to Stanislaus about his unvote of Astral as a potential third party) thought catching third parties was good, why would you want to let a third party go 215 – NETA asking whether it’s understood that third parties aren’t a threat until later 271 – looked up Jester role, must be rare, who would do that 275 – is enough of a tard that he might include a jester role That’s it. Of interest is that Stanislaus’ unvote came pre-claim while the Jester stuff was afterwards; in other words, his activity here overlaps the most interesting part of the Astral discussion. Yet he never directly touches it. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/318 "2011-05-25T13:22:11Z")
Oh boy. > [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > it’s still early in the Day. something may yet happen but if you want me to, i’ll oblige. “If you want me to?” That’s just wrong, gnarly. What “something” do you expect to happen that makes it reasonable for you to delay voting for someone you characterize as “probably scum or third party”? Why should the opinion of the probable scum have anything to do with what you do? Your words do not match your actions. Have a vote; SisC can consider the previous one as a boot to the rear to stop talking fluff. **unvote** **vote: gnarlycharlie** ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/319 "2011-05-25T13:41:16Z")
Wow, I missed that. Yeah, gnarly, you need to vote early and as often as you have genuine suspicion. Don’t hold your vote off until later. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/320 "2011-05-25T13:54:34Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > genuine suspicion. And this is the crux of my problem. I don’t know who I find suspicious right now. This day one stuff sucks. It seems that all everyone is doing Is looking for the slightest slip and excuse and voting someone for it. I don’t Have the slightest idea where to place my vote yet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=17)