# Genre Fiction Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387 "2011-05-19T01:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/321 "2011-05-25T14:04:29Z")
What was your reasoning for voting Red Skeezix in the last game? How much was that based on? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/322 "2011-05-25T14:15:18Z")
I just went back and did a count. With the Day ending on next Monday (just under a week remaining), **Astral** claimed cop with four votes on him. The hammer value is 13. That seems…that seems like jumping the gun. A lot. Also, I’m adding to the chorus of “vote early, vote often”. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/323 "2011-05-25T14:17:26Z")
Not nearly enough as it turned out. Mostly it started with him voting for both town lynchs while voting late on the 2nd one. Then his defence of my vote just seemed too much like a strawman to me. It wasn’t till later when we were talking about the martyr’s death that he made me doubt myself. I think that might be why I’m looking closer before placing a vote, I don’t want to make the same mistakes again. ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/324 "2011-05-25T14:48:16Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Oh boy. > > “If you want me to?” That’s just wrong, gnarly. What “something” do you expect to happen that makes it reasonable for you to delay voting for someone you characterize as “probably scum or third party”? Why should the opinion of the probable scum have anything to do with what you do? Your words do not match your actions. > > Have a vote; SisC can consider the previous one as a boot to the rear to stop talking fluff. > > **unvote** > **vote: gnarlycharlie** > [@Mahaloth](#): > > Wow, I missed that. Yeah, gnarly, you need to vote early and as often as you have genuine suspicion. Don’t hold your vote off until later. > [@Zeriel](#): > > Also, I’m adding to the chorus of “vote early, vote often”. that was a supposed to be a snarky reply for what i felt was ‘i dare you’ post from **Astral**. funny how people complained when players joined on a bandwagon in my other game. **Vote: Astral** i will still see if anything else comes up and see if anything changes my mind. **Normal** , feel free to keep your vote on me and keep voting for me while i’m in the game. i don’t care for your tone. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/325 "2011-05-25T15:05:46Z")
Then I retract the tone. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/326 "2011-05-25T15:13:24Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Sorry, I took out the sentence because I thought it wasn’t important. I assumed we were talking specifically about claims like mine: that is, cops. You claim you would normally lynch, but in this case, you won’t, because I’m a cop. I thought it interesting that you would say “Normally when somebody claims cop, I’d lynch, but since he claimed cop, I won’t.” > > You say my purposes are apparently scummy. May I ask what purposes those are? And how they’re scummy? The scummy purpose is to place suspicion on another player by misrepresenting what they said. Any misrepresentation is suspicious, but especially when important bits are left out intentionally and the remainder used to draw suspicion. Town look for suspicious things, but they want to avoid misrepresenting what others said. Because, unlike scum, they want to find truly suspicious behavior. Suspicion based on misrepresentation is falsely made, which is exactly what scum want. If you are being honest with your explanation above, you should’ve realized that the first sentence was important when the following sentences made no sense while ignoring it. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > What was your reasoning for voting Red Skeezix in the last game? How much was that based on? Let’s please not get sidetracked into arguments about other games. Can you rephrase this into something meaningful to players who didn’t read the last game? ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/327 "2011-05-25T15:18:55Z")
I really don’t think that **Astral** needed to claim so early and it has been worrying me all day so with that **Vote Astral** That on top of his slip makes me think he is Scum or 3rd Party, I also didn’t like the way he almost dared **Gnarly** to vote for him. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/328 "2011-05-25T15:23:29Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Confirming. Finally! the streak is broken and I’m neither scum nor vanilla. > > \ **Vote Pleonast** This is a really dumb thing to do, in my opinion. Why would you do this? To what end? If you’re neither scum nor vanilla, you’re either town power role or third party. If you’re a town power role, this soft claim, unprovoked, is not pro-town. Not necessarily anti-town, but certainly not in the best interest of town. So, are you third party? If not, do you care to finish this half-baked claim? I really, really would like to know what motivated you to do this. I’m really conflicted about Astral Rejection’s cop claim. On one hand, it really looks like a legit townie not understanding the PM and panicking. On the other hand, the whole thing plays out like scum blowing their cover and backing into a fake cop claim - I think fake cop claim is scum ploy numero uno, as far as that goes. If you’re scum and don’t claim cop with your back against the wall, you got no heart. Bah. it’s all WiFoM from here on in. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/329 "2011-05-25T15:25:57Z")
In terms of the local Mafia culture, I can only think of two fake cop claims in the past fifteen to twenty games here. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/330 "2011-05-25T15:38:02Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I really don’t think that **Astral** needed to claim so early and it has been worrying me all day so with that > > **Vote Astral** > > That on top of his slip makes me think he is Scum or 3rd Party, I also didn’t like the way he almost dared **Gnarly** to vote for him. You’re now the second person to raise this argument. At the time I claimed, I had four or five votes on me, \* with nobody else having a single vote.\*. Two people had already called for my claim. I can’t please all of you. I choose to claim early, because I hoped I would then stop dominating the discussion. When you guys lynch me, you’ll have wasted a mislynch and killed our cop, but worse, I feel like you won’t have gotten any good info out of my death. There’s been little talk about anything else. I think gnarlie looks a little suspicious right now. Normal, why didn’t you include Inner Stickler in your analysis of people avoiding the issue? When this first broke, he’s talked about it, asked me questions, said how wrong it looks, and not voted for me. I don’t necessarily find him scummy for it without anything else to go on, but it seems like you shoulda mentioned it. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/331 "2011-05-25T15:47:53Z")
**Normal** : I’m not voting Astral or “discussing” the situation because: First, Players make dumb slips. Regardless of whether they’re Town or Scum. Comes about from being human. Second, Astral’s getting enough heat from other people and I don’t want to accidentally bring down the hammer as I did in another game. I have, as you well know, enough trouble keeping track of vote counts in games I’m _running_ Third, all of the points I might have made have already been made by players more coherent and eloquent than I. Fourth, Although I _am_ leaning toward Astral being either Scum or Third Party at this point, Astral is hardly the _only_ Scum out there. So I’d rather look around and see who else is talking about what, which means talking about other things myself. Finally, I hardly think I’ve been fluffernuttering. Unrelatedly: Winston, why jump on Pleo but not on Ed? Is it just Pleonast’s magic baggery\*, or is it something else? \*To “magic bag”: Look! I’ve got a Magic Bag! But I’m not going to tell you what’s in it! ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/332 "2011-05-25T15:49:41Z")
> [@SisterCoyote](#): > > **Normal** : > > I’m not voting Astral or “discussing” the situation because: > > First, Players make dumb slips. Regardless of whether they’re Town or Scum. Comes about from being human. > Second, Astral’s getting enough heat from other people and I don’t want to accidentally bring down the hammer as I did in another game. I have, as you well know, enough trouble keeping track of vote counts in games I’m _running_ > Third, all of the points I might have made have already been made by players more coherent and eloquent than I. > Fourth, Although I _am_ leaning toward Astral being either Scum or Third Party at this point, Astral is hardly the _only_ Scum out there. So I’d rather look around and see who else is talking about what, which means talking about other things myself. > > Finally, I hardly think I’ve been fluffernuttering. > > Unrelatedly: Winston, why jump on Pleo but not on Ed? Is it just Pleonast’s magic baggery\*, or is it something else? > > \*To “magic bag”: Look! I’ve got a Magic Bag! But I’m not going to tell you what’s in it! What? Did Ed claim too? ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/333 "2011-05-25T15:51:28Z")
Yeah, way back on Page 2 or 3 he said he was Town. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/334 "2011-05-25T15:52:26Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Let’s please not get sidetracked into arguments about other games. Can you rephrase this into something meaningful to players who didn’t read the last game? I was questioning Hirka’s difficulty in finding anything scummy to vote for here when, if I remembered the last game properly\*, he came in quite quickly and easily upon replacing Zeriel with his case on Red Skeezix. - I didn’t remember it right; checking just now, Hirka’s quick day two vote was actually on Special Ed. But it was still based on knowledge of the vote outcome for day one, which is the important thing – he doesn’t have that to go on here, and he’s claiming that’s why he’s having trouble. I’m OK with his response. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/335 "2011-05-25T15:53:10Z")
> [@SisterCoyote](#): > > Yeah, way back on Page 2 or 3 he said he was Town. Do you mean this? > [@special\_ed](#): > > Hi, my name is Ed. > > That’s a lie, my name really isn’t Ed. > > Well, maybe it is, inasmuch as name is something that people use to label things. > > So, yes, my name is Ed. > > I am Town. > > And my win condition is not as stated in the sample PM given at the beginning of the thread. > > :smack: > > oh yes, I went there. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/336 "2011-05-25T15:54:13Z")
Yeah, that’s what I’m talking about. Did I miss a post from you on that? ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/337 "2011-05-25T15:54:55Z")
I believe Ed claimed vanilla town, which we’re all implicitly claiming anyway, right? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/338 "2011-05-25T15:55:26Z")
He actually didn’t claim vanilla; just Town. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/339 "2011-05-25T15:55:28Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > In terms of the local Mafia culture, I can only think of two fake cop claims in the past fifteen to twenty games here. There have been a ton lately on IdleMafia, most of which have gone down in well-deserved flames. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/340 "2011-05-25T15:57:26Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > He actually didn’t claim vanilla; just Town. As far as I’m concerned, claiming Town without specifying a role is the same as claiming Vanilla Town until a clarification to the claim is made. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=18)