# Genre Fiction Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387 "2011-05-19T01:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/361 "2011-05-25T16:43:04Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > I’d like to hear an explanation of how this is possibly pro-Town because I just don’t see it. At the risk of sounding snarky, read any other game Pleo’s been in, ever. This comes up every single time. Nothing you will do will convince him not to do it. Which is a shame, because it actively hurts his team, no matter which side that might be. He’s a great player otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/362 "2011-05-25T16:43:21Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > I’d like to hear an explanation of how this is possibly pro-Town because I just don’t see it. It isn’t; unfortunately, it’s also not a reliable indicator that Pleo is in fact scum. (For the record, I’ve been opposed to a Pleo lynch in the past two games I’ve played with him; I’ve been Town, and he’s been Scum). ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/363 "2011-05-25T16:45:12Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > 1. It’s not controversial to reference previous play styles when relevant. > > 2. Can you find his claim post in the previous game? Link to it please? Gameplay thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13713222&postcount=5](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13713222&postcount=5) Here is his explanation on the scum boards (see post 8): [Login Required | Thundercats Mafia](http://thundercatsmafia.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=blackpyramid&action=display&thread=8) ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/364 "2011-05-25T16:49:10Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > At the risk of sounding snarky, read any other game Pleo’s been in, ever. This comes up every single time. Nothing you will do will convince him not to do it. I haven’t played with Pleo that much but frankly I think giving him a pass is not appropriate. Making a claim at such an early stage is intended to manipulate. Using repetitive behaviors that aggravate and confound is, likewise, intended to manipulate. Pleo can either show his cards in this regard or earn my vote. Claiming non-vanilla is particularly egregious. If he claimed vanilla I wouldn’t care so much. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/365 "2011-05-25T16:56:40Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > i believe **Pleo** was trying to be funny. Well, I was trying to be funny, but yes, it is a real claim. The intended audience is scum. My claim has no value to town, because there’s nothing to back it up. It’s really best for town to ignore it completely. > [@Winston\_Smith](#): > > This is a really dumb thing to do, in my opinion. Why would you do this? To what end? If you’re neither scum nor vanilla, you’re either town power role or third party. If you’re a town power role, this soft claim, unprovoked, is not pro-town. Not necessarily anti-town, but certainly not in the best interest of town. So, are you third party? If not, do you care to finish this half-baked claim? I really, really would like to know what motivated you to do this. I made the claim because I think it is beneficial to town. It is a high-risk, high-reward tactic. Scum must decide if I’m telling the truth or not. Am I trying to draw a Night kill attempt or avoid it? Unlike town, scum cannot avoid the issue, they either try to kill me or they don’t. And just to clarify, are you voting for me because you don’t like my tactic or because you think I’m not town? ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Although this is more meta-gaming than I like, for the record, I’ve claimed in my first in-game post every game but one for the past ([checks history](http://wiki.flyingcowofdoom.com/mafiaWiki/Pleonast)) ten games. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/366 "2011-05-25T16:58:36Z")
It’s totally worthless as a scum-baiting tactic because the scum ALSO know that you do this in every game, and therefore they’re in the same position wrt deciding whether to kill you as they are wrt any other player. But we’ve discussed this before. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/367 "2011-05-25T17:01:16Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > I haven’t played with Pleo that much but frankly I think giving him a pass is not appropriate. Does not appropriate mean that we should lynch him? I’m not trying to put words in your mouth; I’m wondering what you mean by it(and what its implications for our game are). ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/368 "2011-05-25T17:02:41Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Oh boy. > > “If you want me to?” That’s just wrong, gnarly. What “something” do you expect to happen that makes it reasonable for you to delay voting for someone you characterize as “probably scum or third party”? Why should the opinion of the probable scum have anything to do with what you do? Your words do not match your actions. > > Have a vote; SisC can consider the previous one as a boot to the rear to stop talking fluff. > > **unvote** > **vote: gnarlycharlie** Did my reply to this earlier not post? There are reasons not to vote despite being suspicious. Especially in a game iwth a hammer mechanism ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/369 "2011-05-25T17:05:18Z")
> [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > And this is the crux of my problem. I don’t know who I find suspicious right now. This day one stuff sucks. It seems that all everyone is doing Is looking for the slightest slip and excuse and voting someone for it. I don’t Have the slightest idea where to place my vote yet. I’m at a workshop battery running low note to self: scum tell? ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/370 "2011-05-25T17:10:08Z")
Ed, for the love of… NO, not being able to find someone suspicious or build a case is NOT a scum tell. I’m so tired of this sort of statement. Individual players’ mileage may vary, but for me, in particular, it’s far EASIER to make a case when I’m Scum. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/371 "2011-05-25T17:21:13Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Well, I was trying to be funny, but yes, it is a real claim. The intended audience is scum. My claim has no value to town, because there’s nothing to back it up. It’s really best for town to ignore it completely. > > I made the claim because I think it is beneficial to town. It is a high-risk, high-reward tactic. Scum must decide if I’m telling the truth or not. Am I trying to draw a Night kill attempt or avoid it? Unlike town, scum cannot avoid the issue, they either try to kill me or they don’t. > > And just to clarify, are you voting for me because you don’t like my tactic or because you think I’m not town? > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Although this is more meta-gaming than I like, for the record, I’ve claimed in my first in-game post every game but one for the past ([checks history](http://wiki.flyingcowofdoom.com/mafiaWiki/Pleonast)) ten games. Okay, folks, you heard him. Nothing to see here. Move along. It’s best if we just ignore the claim. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/372 "2011-05-25T17:36:46Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I made the claim because I think it is beneficial to town. It is a high-risk, high-reward tactic. Scum must decide if I’m telling the truth or not. Am I trying to draw a Night kill attempt or avoid it? Unlike town, scum cannot avoid the issue, they either try to kill me or they don’t. It’s going to be eye-rollingly “beneficial” if you get hit by a remorseful vig or something. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/373 "2011-05-25T17:43:08Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > I haven’t played with Pleo that much but frankly I think giving him a pass is not appropriate. Nowhere do I give him a pass. I stated clearly that I think it hurts his team, no matter which team he’s on. He got himself killed as scum roleblocker indirectly because of this habit. He’s gotten himself lynched as town for it. It dominates discussion and draws an unnecessary amount of attention to himself for no gain. I was trying to forestall the inevitable discussion that would result from your question. I was hoping to cut it off early by saying “he does this every time, and you can’t convince him not to.” From there, we can draw our own conclusions about how we want to deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/374 "2011-05-25T17:46:59Z")
> [@Winston\_Smith](#): > > Okay, folks, you heard him. Nothing to see here. Move along. It’s best if we just ignore the claim. Will you answer my question to you: > [@Pleonast](#): > > And just to clarify, are you voting for me because you don’t like my tactic or because you think I’m not town? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/375 "2011-05-25T17:47:22Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > by all means, cast suspicion on me to save yourself. at least **Normal** bothered to explain her vote. I think this is a bit of an overreaction. Do you honestly believe at this point I should just stop playing the game? Stop looking for people that strike me as suspicious, and stop pointing them out to my teammates? Because, fundamentally, _you can’t be sure I’m lying._ I claim to be the town cop (in fact, I AM the town cop, but that’s besides the point I’m trying to make). I’ve definitely hurt my team by my inability to remember team names. At some point, you guys will need to lynch me because I’d otherwise be a distraction. But I’m not dead yet. I need to record my thoughts for when I flip town, because _you might be interested in what I have to say by then._ ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/376 "2011-05-25T17:58:00Z")
> [@SisterCoyote](#): > > Individual players’ mileage may vary, but for me, in particular, it’s far EASIER to make a case when I’m Scum. Then my mileage varies by quite a bit. When I’m scum, I’m anxious about making any kind of case on anyone because I don’t want to attract attention. When I’m town, I don’t worry about attracting attention or getting votes(well, not as much anyway). Basically, if I die and I’m VT in a game, then it is annoying but not the end of the world or my game. I’m I’m a town power role and I nearly get lynched, I can claim to defer my death and use my power. If I’m scum, I’m…well, screwed if I start collecting votes. Just my experience or thoughts, though. Your…uh, mileage may indeed vary. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/377 "2011-05-25T17:58:17Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Will you answer my question to you: > > “And just to clarify, are you voting for me because you don’t like my tactic or because you think I’m not town?” Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/378 "2011-05-25T18:00:53Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Then my mileage varies by quite a bit. When I’m scum, I’m anxious about making any kind of case on anyone because I don’t want to attract attention. When I’m town, I don’t worry about attracting attention or getting votes(well, not as much anyway). Basically, if I die and I’m VT in a game, then it is annoying but not the end of the world or my game. I’m I’m a town power role and I nearly get lynched, I can claim to defer my death and use my power. If I’m scum, I’m…well, screwed if I start collecting votes. The one game I played as scum, I found it much easier to build cases than when I was Town; after all, I just had to worry about whether there was something suspicious, I didn’t have to worry about whether I was RIGHT or not. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/379 "2011-05-25T18:26:17Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > Although this is more meta-gaming than I like, for the record, I’ve claimed in my first in-game post every game but one for the past ([checks history](http://wiki.flyingcowofdoom.com/mafiaWiki/Pleonast)) ten games. Since you’ve gone metagame how about providing a breaktown Out of those 9 times, how many times were you lying and how many time were you honest? How does that correlate with your alignment? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/380 "2011-05-25T18:28:11Z")
> [@SisterCoyote](#): > > Ed, for the love of… > > NO, not being able to find someone suspicious or build a case is NOT a scum tell. I’m so tired of this sort of statement. > > Individual players’ mileage may vary, but for me, in particular, it’s far EASIER to make a case when I’m Scum. onvously my opinion is different [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=20)