# Genre Fiction Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387 "2011-05-19T01:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/401 "2011-05-25T23:38:35Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Believe it or not, I did actually ask Red if I could. wait, wait, wait. There was even more communication with Red and you didn’t share it with us earlier? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/402 "2011-05-25T23:43:52Z")
> [@SisterCoyote](#): > > Oh, for the love of… > > Pede, Ed came out and _explicitly_ stated he was Town. most of us don’t do that this early in a game. There is a _huge_ difference, IMO, between the _implicit_ “well, of course I’m Town” coming from everybody in a game and the sort of explicit statements both Ed and Pleo have made in this game. > > Also, you’re taking the whole post out of context, as it was a response to the conversation Normal and I were having, which culminated in Normal’s post #356 where she asked where Ed had implied “just.” Which of course, he hadn’t, but other people (I dunno, last page? I’m kind of typing in a hurry and can’t go back and look at the moment) had said they assumed he was “vanilla” because he didn’t specify, and others said they assumed nothing of the sort. > > And I was explaining why I found his statement, _regardless of how he meant it_ to be a null tell. > > If I were trying to stick shit to Ed, I’d stick it to him, trust me. I have the ammo…somewhere around here. 😛 I think you’re ignoring what should be obvious. I “claimed” Town because I thought I had information that might be useful in getting myself confirmed (and maybe potentially handshake with someone though I’ll never admit to that) I was, as usually seems to happen when I think that way, wrong. Did you really look at what I did as a claim? Really? ```auto Pleo claimed because...well...I don't think anyone knows why. I'm still waiting for him to give us the breakdown of his claims.... You know, when claiming Vanilla, how often was he Vanilla Town, how often was he power Town, how often was he Scum. And the same for claiming non-Vanilla. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/403 "2011-05-26T00:14:37Z")
> [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > Once you started getting questions, you backed off your request a little too quickly, and you never actually answered the questions, Why were you interested? :snipped: I answered this. Red said we could find clues in the color. I thought it’d be a starting point. Apparently, I was the only one that thought so. Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/404 "2011-05-26T00:15:24Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > I think you’re ignoring what should be obvious. > > I “claimed” Town because I thought I had information that might be useful in getting myself confirmed (and maybe potentially handshake with someone though I’ll never admit to that) > > I was, as usually seems to happen when I think that way, wrong. > > Did you really look at what I did as a claim? Really? What on earth does this mean? You claimed, but it’s not really a claim, but it’s going to confirm something? I’m confused. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/405 "2011-05-26T00:22:24Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > What on earth does this mean? You claimed, but it’s not really a claim, but it’s going to confirm something? I’m confused. OK, 1. I claimed to be Town This is pretty meaningless as everyone is trying to portray themselves as Town. 1. I hoped it would confirm something. I saw that my role PM had a different Won Condition than the one posted by Red at the start of the thread in the sample PM. However, I had failed to realize that he’d posted a revised sample PM. Had I benn correct, Every Town player who had a different Win Condition than the one posted would probably think I was likely to be telling the truth. (Not confirmed but maybe more trusted) 1. So I don’t consider it a claim as I was ‘claiming’ something that everyone is trying to act like anyway. It might be similar to claim, “I have a name that is some way connected to fiction.” Meaningless. 2. Astral’s claim is a claim in that he claimed his name and role. 3. Pleo’s claim is a partial claim as he shared information that is not assumed. He claimed to be a power role. Does this make more sense? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/406 "2011-05-26T01:09:25Z")
I had a change of plans with my family for this weekend and will not be around in the usual fashion until approximately Tuesday. I’ll try to keep up, but you know. I’m not that comfortable with lynching Astral at this point. The basic reasons for suspecting him haven’t really gone away, but there’s enough weirdness going on as regards the votes for him\* (and lack of votes for him) that I’m less sanguine about the risk of lynching our actual cop than I was a day or so ago. \*Silver Jan’s rationale for instance, which I think but am not sure she wasn’t the only one to use. It’s a very weak reason to vote a claimed cop. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/407 "2011-05-26T01:22:48Z")
**Ed** , yes, it does, thanks. I agree with **Normal Phase** that **SisterCoyote** is being very vague. She agrees with all the arguments that **Astral** looked suspicious, but she didnt want to vote, or even comment, because ‘players make mistakes’. She said she wants to find other scum, but she hasn’t done much towards that end, even though she has been around. Not a very solid case, but for now **vote SisterCoyote** ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/408 "2011-05-26T01:53:48Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > **Ed** , yes, it does, thanks. > > I agree with **Normal Phase** that **SisterCoyote** is being very vague. She agrees with all the arguments that **Astral** looked suspicious, but she didnt want to vote, or even comment, because ‘players make mistakes’. She said she wants to find other scum, but she hasn’t done much towards that end, even though she has been around. > > Not a very solid case, but for now > > **vote SisterCoyote** The case on Sister seems reasonable. However, as others might confirm, I don’t trust my judgement when it comes to Sister because I always see her as Scummy. Also, after the last few games, I’m hesitant to listen to anything Normal has to say :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/409 "2011-05-26T02:03:15Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > fwiw, I believe you. If you believe that **Astral** is cop, what are you going to do? Because as it stands, he is going to be lynched. (He has 6 votes, I think) ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/410 "2011-05-26T02:25:51Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I think this is a bit of an overreaction. Do you honestly believe at this point I should just stop playing the game? Stop looking for people that strike me as suspicious, and stop pointing them out to my teammates? > > Because, fundamentally, _you can’t be sure I’m lying._ I claim to be the town cop (in fact, I AM the town cop, but that’s besides the point I’m trying to make). > > I’ve definitely hurt my team by my inability to remember team names. At some point, you guys will need to lynch me because I’d otherwise be a distraction. But I’m not dead yet. I need to record my thoughts for when I flip town, because _you might be interested in what I have to say by then._ fair enough. but if you are lynched, i will be interested in what you had to say however you flip. > [@special\_ed](#): > > I guess it might be useful to see gnarly’s history in vting. Is he a vote early kind of guy? or is he a vote later kind of guy? > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I have played a few games with **gnarly** and he tends to be quiet at the beginning of day and then comes out with some very interesting observations later on. I must say that I have only seen him play as Town. yes, i do tend to start slow. usually the more experienced players have enough fireworks going so i observe, poke here and there and try to get reactions. then i vote. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/411 "2011-05-26T02:33:05Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > If you believe that **Astral** is cop, what are you going to do? Because as it stands, he is going to be lynched. (He has 6 votes, I think) I’m going to use my super secret role power to remove all the votes against him, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/412 "2011-05-26T02:39:22Z")
I was curious about the current vote count, since there has been a lot of voting since Red last posted. So, I went and tallied up all the votes. Here they are. **Astral Rejection (6):** [del]Tom Scud[/del] (136,236), [del]Stanislaus[/del] (139,211), TexCat (141), Mahaloth (154), Zeriel (160), [del]Normal Phase[/del] (207,237), Special Ed (245), gnarlycharlie (325), Silver Jan (328) **Special Ed (1):** Astral Rejection (248) **Sister Coyote (2):** [del]Normal Phase[/del] (318,319), pedescribe (400), Weedy (408) **gnarlycharlie (1):** Normal Phase (319) **Pleonast (2):** Winston Smith (329), fluiddruid (357) **Mahaloth (1):** Hirka T’Bawa (399) Not Voting: Tom Scud, fubbleskag, Inner Stickler, nesta, Sister Coyote, Stanislaus, MHaye, Pleonast For the record, Astral claimed in post 230. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/413 "2011-05-26T02:47:55Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > yes, i do tend to start slow. usually the more experienced players have enough fireworks going so i observe, poke here and there and try to get reactions. then i vote. How is that pro-town? ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/414 "2011-05-26T03:06:41Z")
As I was going through the thread counting votes just now, I started getting curious about a few people. First, and mainly **SisterCoyote**. Her first couple posts were well explained by **Normal Phase** in post 318 (which I agree with, and as Sister would say, “all of the points I might have made have already been made by players more coherent and eloquent than I.”) . Her responses since then have been less then ideal, and more importantly, haven’t actually addressed Normal’s original complaints. Her response to Normal’s complaints in post 331 were ok, to a point. > [@SisterCoyote](#): > > I’m not voting Astral or “discussing” the situation because: > > First, Players make dumb slips. Regardless of whether they’re Town or Scum. Comes about from being human. Ok, true, but making dumb slips would be a reason to even forgive someone, or to talk about it and see if it is important. I have forgiven Astral, I believe him and his story. I posted my defense of him in post 212 (before his claim). You have neither forgiven him, nor talked about it trying to get to the truth. > [@](#): > > Second, Astral’s getting enough heat from other people and I don’t want to accidentally bring down the hammer as I did in another game. I have, as you well know, enough trouble keeping track of vote counts in games I’m _running_ Understandable, but this is day one. The hammer vote count is 13. Astral has gotten up to a maximum of 6 votes, peaking at post 207, and currently. He wasn’t actually no where close to the hammer (even if he was vote leader with no votes on anyone else). > [@](#): > > Third, all of the points I might have made have already been made by players more coherent and eloquent than I. I totally understand this, I do that too. But at least I’ll post that I agree with someone’s arguments. It does town no good to not know what someone is thinking. > [@](#): > > Fourth, Although I _am_ leaning toward Astral being either Scum or Third Party at this point, Astral is hardly the _only_ Scum out there. So I’d rather look around and see who else is talking about what, which means talking about other things myself. So, what have you talked about since then? You started this whole conversation about Ed saying he’s town. Well, everyone says they are town. The goal of this game is to separate the liars from the truth tellers. You started trying to throw suspicion at Ed, while not actually _Saying_ anything. I find that scummy. **Unvote Mahaloth** **Vote SisterCoyote** ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/415 "2011-05-26T03:09:10Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > How is that pro-town? is that necessarily anti-Town? i didn’t say i vote ten minutes before EOD. furthermore it’s not like scum don’t vote early and often. see **Pleo** in Thundercats. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/416 "2011-05-26T03:10:53Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > is that necessarily anti-Town? i didn’t say i vote ten minutes before EOD. furthermore it’s not like scum don’t vote early and often. see **Pleo** in Thundercats. Poking here and trying to get reactions seems scummy to me. ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/417 "2011-05-26T03:31:57Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Poking here and trying to get reactions seems scummy to me. seriously? don’t people try to poke holes into other players’ arguments all the time? besides, i did that in our Royal Rumble game in Giraffe to great success and i was the Town Watcher there. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/418 "2011-05-26T03:41:27Z")
> [@SisterCoyote](#): > > Oh, for the love of… > > Pede, Ed came out and _explicitly_ stated he was Town. most of us don’t do that this early in a game. There is a _huge_ difference, IMO, between the _implicit_ “well, of course I’m Town” coming from everybody in a game and the sort of explicit statements both Ed and Pleo have made in this game. No, see, you’re doing it again. Ed didn’t claim anything. Pleo claimed Town power role. There is a world of difference between those two, and to lump them together…to maybe confuse people into assuming they are the same…is scummy. [quote=“SisterCoyote, post:400, topic:582387”] Also, you’re taking the whole post out of context, as it was a response to the conversation Normal and I were having, which culminated in Normal’s post #356 where she asked where Ed had implied “just.” Which of course, he hadn’t, but other people (I dunno, last page? I’m kind of typing in a hurry and can’t go back and look at the moment) had said they assumed he was “vanilla” because he didn’t specify, and others said they assumed nothing of the sort. [quote] Luci said he assumes everyone is vanilla unless specified otherwise. That’s it. That’s hardly “several people on each side”. > [@fubbleskag](#): > > I’m going to use my super secret role power to remove all the votes against him, obviously. Joking or no? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/419 "2011-05-26T03:53:55Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Poking here and trying to get reactions seems scummy to me. Seriously? Isn’t that exactly what you are doing? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/420 "2011-05-26T03:58:43Z")
Yes, but he’s not calling attention to it. _nod nod nod_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=22)