# Genre Fiction Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387 "2011-05-19T01:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/441 "2011-05-26T15:54:54Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > yes, i do tend to start slow. usually the more experienced players have enough fireworks going so i observe, poke here and there and try to get reactions. then i vote. See? What he said was “poke here and there and try go get reactions”, not that he pokes holes in others’ arguments, which is quite different. I find it interesting that gnarly changed it from “poking to get reactions” to “poking holes in arguements” when challenged. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/442 "2011-05-26T16:07:53Z")
> [@SisterCoyote](#): > > Yes, Ed, I thought you were claiming Town. Which you were. So you look at the following as equivalent? 1. I am Town 2. I am a Town power role 3. I am the Town detective 1 is meaningless 2 is a partial claim and worthless 3 is a claim ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/443 "2011-05-26T16:16:12Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Since you’ve gone metagame how about providing a breaktown > > Out of those 9 times, how many times were you lying and how many time were you honest? How does that correlate with your alignment? I didn’t keep track and don’t have time to go back and check what I claimed. Our wiki is out of date for links to games, so it’s not easy to find the game threads. > [@fluiddruid](#): > > You make a claim, you had better be ready to back it up. Why? > [@nesta](#): > > **Pleo** , did you change your mind mid-post on when **Astral** should be lynched, or am I somehow reading it wrong? I did. That’s what happens when I catch up and respond to posts as I read them. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > > [@nesta](#): > > > > That seems very general. If the quote is legitimate it would seem to indicate that there were no actions at all. > > > > Any reason you didn’t share this when you posted the other PM conversation with Red? > > > > [BTW, is there an easy way to preserve nested quotes?] > > No, this board is infested with ignorant users who misattributed away our ability to have nested quoting. No, I’m not bitter about this at all. We still have nested quoting, you just have to do it the old fashioned way. > [@SisterCoyote](#): > > Pede, Ed came out and _explicitly_ stated he was Town. most of us don’t do that this early in a game. There is a _huge_ difference, IMO, between the _implicit_ “well, of course I’m Town” coming from everybody in a game and the sort of explicit statements both Ed and Pleo have made in this game. I simply cannot understand where you’re coming from. Players around here have bizarre attitudes regarding snippets of more or less useless information. > [@special\_ed](#): > > Pleo claimed because…well…I don’t think anyone knows why. I explain myself every game. Believe my claim or not, the explanation is there. > [@](#): > > I’m still waiting for him to give us the breakdown of his claims… > > You know, when claiming Vanilla, how often was he Vanilla Town, how often was he power Town, how often was he Scum. And the same for claiming non-Vanilla. If it is that important to you, you can look it up yourself. I even pointed to a nice list of the games I’ve played in. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I haven’t found anything worth voting for yet. I’ll have to do reread and vote later. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/444 "2011-05-26T16:20:20Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > > [@special ed](#): > > > > Pleo claimed because…well…I don’t think anyone knows why. > > I explain myself every game. Believe my claim or not, the explanation is there. I stand corrected. Pleo claimed because…well…I don’t think anyone but Pleo knows why. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/445 "2011-05-26T16:22:29Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > I stand corrected. > > Pleo claimed because…well…I don’t think anyone but Pleo knows why. I believe Pleo’s assertion is that he claimed in order to confound the scum. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/446 "2011-05-26T16:32:32Z")
> [@Winston\_Smith](#): > > I believe Pleo’s assertion is that he claimed in order to confound the scum. Indeed. He also has a rock that keeps tigers away. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/447 "2011-05-26T16:45:42Z")
Sorry for the delay in this, i’ve been sick recently. Astral Rejection(5): [del]Tom Scud[136-236][/del], [del]Stanislaus[139-211][/del], TexCat[141], Mahaloth[154], Zeriel[160], [del]Normal Phase[207-237][/del], Special Ed[245], gnarlycharlie[324], [del]Silver Jan[327-428][/del] SisterCoyote(3): [del]Normal Phase[317-318][/del], pedescribe[399], Weedy[407], Hirka T’Bawa[414] Pleonast(2): Winston Smith[328], fluiddruid[356] Special Ed(1): Astral Rejection[248] gnarlycharlie(1): Normal Phase[318] Mahaloth(0): [del]Hirka T’Bawa[398-414][/del] Did Not Vote:Tom Scud, fubbleskag, Inner Stickler, nesta, SisterCoyote, Stanislaus, Silver Jan, MHaye, Pleonast With these votes Astral Rejection would be lynched. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/448 "2011-05-26T16:52:00Z")
I’m at work, and something seems to be bogging down our access to the Internet here. I’ll complete this post when I’m home. [spoiler]Pleo’s 10 recent games history (I’ve omitted malazan as it was quite a different style game) Alien Taste 2 [ul] [li]3rd party[/li][li]I found no day 1 claim[/li][/ul]Willow [ul] [li]Scum[/li][li]Claimed Town Power[/li][/ul]Mafia Games [ul] [li]Town Power[/li][li]Claimed Town Power[/li][/ul]Lord of the Rings [ul] [li]Town Power[/li][/ul]Castle of Crossed Destinies [ul] [li]Vanilla Town[/li][/ul]International Mafia [ul] [li]Vanilla Town[/li][/ul]Hotel of Heroes [ul] [li]Scum[/li][/ul]Glasnost [ul] [li]Scum[/li][/ul]Thundercats [ul] [li]Scum[/li][/ul][/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/449 "2011-05-26T17:02:01Z")
I can add that in Hotel of Heroes, unless I’m wrong, Pleo did not claim and was scum. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/450 "2011-05-26T17:07:18Z")
Special Ed: Please interpret your findings; What does Pleo’s history tell us? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/451 "2011-05-26T17:20:23Z")
For self-preservation reasons and the cases leveled against her by others, I’d like to **Unvote Special Ed** and **vote Sister Coyote.** While at this point none of you can believe me, it’s for the best for town. Since I’m cop, and Sister Coyote has no claim so far, we’re much better off lynching her than me. My unvote of Ed does not mean my suspicions on him have abated. Ed’s tenacious offense against me, where he seems driven to get me lynched and is making no particular effort to look at other cases, mirrors my own play as Scum in LOTR mafia where I did the exact same thing to him. I found him scummy, then less so, and now scummy again. I started thinking that scum wouldn’t keep going so obviously. But then I asked myself, what would town gain if they obsessed over one case to the exclusion of most else? So he’s looped back around to suspicious for me. Gnarlie still strikes me as a little bit off. The Coyote case feels right to me, so it works out well that I need to switch to them for self-preservation, but Gnarlie is worth a further look. I’m gonna reread him a little later. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/452 "2011-05-26T17:22:08Z")
It tells me that the claim is really a null tell, he seems to do it whether he’s town or scum. Pleo, he asked if there’s an easy way to preserve nested quotes. There is not, because people threw a shitfit over their own incompetence. Again, not bitter. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/453 "2011-05-26T17:26:10Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Pleo, he asked if there’s an easy way to preserve nested quotes. There is not, because people threw a shitfit over their own incompetence. Again, not bitter. I remember the wailing and gnashing of teeth in ATMB. I can not, for the live of me, figure out what’s tough about nested quotes. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/454 "2011-05-26T17:26:50Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Since I’m cop, and Sister Coyote has no claim so far, we’re much better off lynching her than me. Ha. That’s horrible reasoning unless you believe that a player exists in some sort of quantum state before claiming. She has a role and that role, while unknown to us, could make her lynching worse or as bad as yours, especially given that several people simply don’t believe your claim so don’t go trying to make out like everyone knows you’re the cop because we don’t know. I would love however, for you to address Pede’s comment, which is, if you can detect whether someone is part of A:E or not, why are you described as a WEAK cop when your power seems pretty regular cop like? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/455 "2011-05-26T17:27:10Z")
Shoulda been life instead of live. I’d edit it, but somebody would add it to their case against me. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/456 "2011-05-26T17:29:41Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > It tells me that the claim is really a null tell, he seems to do it whether he’s town or scum. > > Pleo, he asked if there’s an easy way to preserve nested quotes. There is not, because people threw a shitfit over their own incompetence. Again, not bitter. I came to the same conclusion, but that’s really not the point. Ed’s been asking for this information since yesterday, and it was obviously important enough to him that he went and took time out of his busy day to go find it and summarize it. Ed’s got insights and opinions that are remarkably astute sometimes, and other times he’s nutty as a fruitcake. I was/am really curious as to what he gleaned from his research into this. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/457 "2011-05-26T17:30:40Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Ha. That’s horrible reasoning unless you believe that a player exists in some sort of quantum state before claiming. She has a role and that role, while unknown to us, could make her lynching worse or as bad as yours, especially given that several people simply don’t believe your claim so don’t go trying to make out like everyone knows you’re the cop because we don’t know. Is it really horrible reasoning? I know I’m cop, and I know that’s more worthwhile than somebody I don’t know anything about. Last I checked, I only have to justify my own reasoning for voting for somebody. If I know I’m a town role, isn’t it my job to keep myself alive as long as possible? I mean, the alternative is just letting myself die, right? Sure, if Sister Coyote claims, I’ll have to evaluate that claim. > [@](#): > > I would love however, for you to address Pede’s comment, which is, if you can detect whether someone is part of A:E or not, why are you described as a WEAK cop when your power seems pretty regular cop like? Really? This again? I posted a discussion I had with Red Skeezix about that very thing. I pointed back to it when Pede asked about it. It’s been addressed. Maybe if I post it one more time, you’ll stop asking? [QUOTE=Red Skeezix] [QUOTE=Astral Rejection] [QUOTE=Red Skeezix] Name: R. Daneel Olivaw Universe/Story: The Caves of Steel Role: Weak Cop Alignment: Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords Powers: Each night you may choose a player to investigate. You will learn whether or not that player is a member of the Associated League of Evil. Wincondition: You win when all threats to the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords have been vanquished AND at least one member of the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords are alive. [/QUOTE] This sounds like “regular” cop. What are the limitations? [/QUOTE] You can only determine if a player is a member of the Associated League of Evil or not. A full cop investigates a player and determines their alignment. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/458 "2011-05-26T17:31:12Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I’ve never played in a game where night 0 (that is, night where the game hasn’t started yet) allows actions. Many games have Night 0 starts. > [@](#): > > Once again - who is more likely to speak up, a town Astral or a scum Astral? I was aware, as I was posting, that somebody would jump on me for not revealing this earlier. Again, as my posted comment should indicate, I was joking and thought no knowledge had actually been gained. I could have said nothing. \*\*Pleonast \*\*is in the game, he’s a walking example of why scum might go out on a limb with an early claim. It’s not that uncommon a tactic, especially with a plausible but rare role in a closed game. > [@](#): > > Of course, this is in no way asking for a pass. I just feel people are actively trying to twist everything into an indication of guilt, and forgetting to stop and ask themselves, “wait, why would scum do that?” Heh, that’s why _I_ think you’re likely to be 3rd-party survivor and angling to get the doc helping you out. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/459 "2011-05-26T17:32:14Z")
NETA: “…the doc, if one exists, helping…” ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/460 "2011-05-26T17:35:17Z")
> [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > I do have a question as a newbie, how often can you actually do night actions on night 0? In all the games I’ve skimmed so far, they even started with a night 0 with no actions (on either side), or started on day one. Are night zero actions common enough that it is something that is assumed, or uncommon enough that if you can actually do something it is remarkable? > > As a newbie, this is an honest question. I honestly don’t know how to take Astral not mentioning it. [http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Night\_Start](http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Night_Start) “Traditionally, night start was the default rule, with other possibilities considered to be variations.” Granted, I don’t have any particular memory of how the Doper Mafia community plays in specific, but in general, Night Start is not uncommon enough to assume it’ll never happen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=24)