# Genre Fiction Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387 "2011-05-19T01:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/461 "2011-05-26T17:38:45Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Many games have Night 0 starts. Fantastic. I’ve still never played in one. What you said is not a counter to what I said. > [@](#): > > \*\*Pleonast \*\*is in the game, he’s a walking example of why scum might go out on a limb with an early claim. It’s not that uncommon a tactic, especially with a plausible but rare role in a closed game. Besides the point. I didn’t “go out on a limb” with my claim, I tried revealing what the moderator had told me to the town using only the information anyone had access to. I screwed it up, but my actions were an attempt to be PRO-TOWN. My PM to Red is consistent with what I was trying to reveal to the town. Your argument needs to be better than “well Pleo did the same thing, so obviously you’re scum or third party.” > [@](#): > > Heh, that’s why _I_ think you’re likely to be 3rd-party survivor and angling to get the doc helping you out. I have a great idea then. If there’s a doc, DON’T PROTECT ME. A nightkill of me would be great for the town at this point, I guess. Scum (should they have a roleblocker) will just lock me down anyway. I think they’d prefer not to kill me anyway, since they can let the town worry about it day after day while blocking my powers anyway. The doc is plenty safe choosing anyone but me to protect. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/462 "2011-05-26T17:40:08Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Is it really horrible reasoning? I know I’m cop, and I know that’s more worthwhile than somebody I don’t know anything about. Last I checked, I only have to justify my own reasoning for voting for somebody. If I know I’m a town role, isn’t it my job to keep myself alive as long as possible? I mean, the alternative is just letting myself die, right? Sure, if Sister Coyote claims, I’ll have to evaluate that claim. > > Really? This again? I posted a discussion I had with Red Skeezix about that very thing. I pointed back to it when Pede asked about it. It’s been addressed. Maybe if I post it one more time, you’ll stop asking? Ok but see, that doesn’t really help, because my PM has CARS in the Alignment slot and since this game is set up as CARS vs ALE my assumption is that the scum PMs have ALE in the alignment slot. So you get an answer of ALE or not-ALE while a full cop gets a result of ALE or CARS. Seems like a distinction without much of a difference to me. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/463 "2011-05-26T17:41:19Z")
Can’t help you then. That’s all the info I have about it, too. ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/464 "2011-05-26T17:53:06Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > See? What he said was “poke here and there and try go get reactions”, not that he pokes holes in others’ arguments, which is quite different. > > I find it interesting that gnarly changed it from “poking to get reactions” to “poking holes in arguements” when challenged. you play with words? let’s say i ‘changed’ it. does that make me scum? others have disagreed with you. i’ll ask the same question **Astral** asked me. why aren’t you voting for me? because when i flip town you’d have a lot of explaining to do? > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > For self-preservation reasons and the cases leveled against her by others, I’d like to **Unvote Special Ed** and **vote Sister Coyote.** > > While at this point none of you can believe me, it’s for the best for town. Since I’m cop, and Sister Coyote has no claim so far, we’re much better off lynching her than me. > > My unvote of Ed does not mean my suspicions on him have abated. Ed’s tenacious offense against me, where he seems driven to get me lynched and is making no particular effort to look at other cases, mirrors my own play as Scum in LOTR mafia where I did the exact same thing to him. I found him scummy, then less so, and now scummy again. I started thinking that scum wouldn’t keep going so obviously. But then I asked myself, what would town gain if they obsessed over one case to the exclusion of most else? So he’s looped back around to suspicious for me. > > Gnarlie still strikes me as a little bit off. The Coyote case feels right to me, so it works out well that I need to switch to them for self-preservation, but Gnarlie is worth a further look. I’m gonna reread him a little later. smudge, smudge, smudge and still no vote for me. you just want to save yourself? maybe you and **Mahaloth** are friends? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/465 "2011-05-26T17:59:21Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > smudge, smudge, smudge and still no vote for me. you just want to save yourself? maybe you and **Mahaloth** are friends? :rolleyes: You realize I only get one vote, right? Just one? I can only vote for who I find most scummiest? I just want to make sure that’s clear before I move on to the next paragraph. So, assuming I get one vote, and assuming I’ve placed it on the person I find most scummiest, you _ **still** _ are arguing I should now stop playing the game, right? I can’t mention, in no uncertain terms, that I find you suspicious? I can’t say I’m gonna take a look at you in the future? I have to stay silent on the issue of you, because I don’t find you as suspicious as whoever currently holds my vote? ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/466 "2011-05-26T18:08:26Z")
Astral – I haven’t bothered claiming for two reasons. 1. Up until your vote, I wasn’t in any danger of being lynched. As you are still the Lynch Leader, and I could put you two votes up, I’m still in less danger than you are of being lynched. And anyone who’s played with me before knows that I’m not inclined to claim early and I don’t like early (unprovoked – your situation is slightly different) claims in general. That said, 1. I’m Vanilla Town. However, since Scum are going to claim exactly the same thing, this gets no heat off my head. I keep going back and forth on whether I believe your claim and your explanation, but in the interest of saving my own hide since I _know_ I’m Town, and have no idea whether you are or not: **vote: Astral Rejection** ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/467 "2011-05-26T18:09:28Z")
And because somebody’s going to ask me for it: [QUOTE=Red Skeezix] Name: Salvor Hardin Alignment: Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords Universe/Story: Foundation Role: Vanilla Powers: None Wincondition: You win when all threats to the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords have been vanquished AND at least one member of the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords are alive. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/468 "2011-05-26T18:12:41Z")
Hey! My guy was in Foundation (briefly) too! High-five! I have no complaints with a self-preservation vote, so your vote’s cool with me. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/469 "2011-05-26T18:13:40Z")
OOG: I haven’t read Foundation in years. Should probably remedy that. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/470 "2011-05-26T18:15:06Z")
My guy was in Foundation and Earth. Really, probably the weakest of the Foundation series. I recommend you skip that one. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/471 "2011-05-26T19:23:12Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > you play with words? let’s say i ‘changed’ it. does that make me scum? others have disagreed with you. i’ll ask the same question **Astral** asked me. why aren’t you voting for me? because when i flip town you’d have a lot of explaining to do? > > smudge, smudge, smudge and still no vote for me. you just want to save yourself? maybe you and **Mahaloth** are friends? :rolleyes: 1. I didn’t play with words. You tried to change the meaning of what you said. You said you poke people to get reactions and later tried to make it sound like you poke holes in arguments. There is a big difference. 2. Poking people just to get reactions and sitting back and seeing? Yeah, that’s scummy. 3. I don’t care if others have disagreed with me. Why would I? 4. I’m not voting you(I only get one vote), but if it makes you feel better, you are my top suspect after Astral. Happy? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/472 "2011-05-26T20:00:55Z")
> [@Winston\_Smith](#): > > Special Ed: Please interpret your findings; What does Pleo’s history tell us? Let’s wait until I finish finding my findings, shall we? ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/473 "2011-05-26T20:09:34Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Let’s wait until I finish finding my findings, shall we? Absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/474 "2011-05-26T20:14:47Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > you play with words? let’s say i ‘changed’ it. does that make me scum? others have disagreed with you. i’ll ask the same question **Astral** asked me. why aren’t you voting for me? because when i flip town you’d have a lot of explaining to do? > > smudge, smudge, smudge and still no vote for me. you just want to save yourself? maybe you and **Mahaloth** are friends? :rolleyes: It looks like you are playing a Calvin game (meta gaming I know), not fun because although you won us the last game I have no idea what you want from anyone now. As I said before I is just a confused grey (would have said blonde but..) ---
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/475 "2011-05-26T20:24:26Z")
> [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > I do have a question as a newbie, how often can you actually do night actions on night 0? In all the games I’ve skimmed so far, they even started with a night 0 with no actions (on either side), or started on day one. Are night zero actions common enough that it is something that is assumed, or uncommon enough that if you can actually do something it is remarkable? > > As a newbie, this is an honest question. I honestly don’t know how to take Astral not mentioning it. I seem to recall that many of the earlier games on this site had actions during night 0. This unfortunately led to the more experienced players waking up dead and not being able to play at all, which is probably why it’s less common now. I’m still trying to get a handle on how the game has evolved since I took a hiatus a few years ago. Many of the same players around, but a different play style than I’m used to. ---
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/476 "2011-05-26T20:30:04Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > It looks like you are playing a Calvin game (meta gaming I know), not fun because although you won us the last game I have no idea what you want from anyone now. I’m not familiar with the term calvin game. Mind elaborating a bit? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/477 "2011-05-26T20:30:20Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > For self-preservation reasons and the cases leveled against her by others, I’d like to **Unvote Special Ed** and **vote Sister Coyote.** > > While at this point none of you can believe me, it’s for the best for town. Since I’m cop, and Sister Coyote has no claim so far, we’re much better off lynching her than me. What about the SisC case(s) do you like? > [@](#): > > My unvote of Ed does not mean my suspicions on him have abated. Ed’s tenacious offense against me, where he seems driven to get me lynched and is making no particular effort to look at other cases, mirrors my own play as Scum in LOTR mafia where I did the exact same thing to him. I found him scummy, then less so, and now scummy again. I started thinking that scum wouldn’t keep going so obviously. But then I asked myself, what would town gain if they obsessed over one case to the exclusion of most else? So he’s looped back around to suspicious for me. Talk to me again if you flip town\*, or if in the future he exhibits similar focus with less reason. - You know what I mean. > [@](#): > > Gnarlie still strikes me as a little bit off. The Coyote case feels right to me, so it works out well that I need to switch to them for self-preservation, but Gnarlie is worth a further look. I’m gonna reread him a little later. I’d like to see this. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/478 "2011-05-26T20:34:51Z")
I am enjoying these games as new players seem to be welcomed and not shoved off to one side, you are also playing with real people as opposed to a computer. I may be silly or sharp but everyone hears you. I think that should have ben an OOG lol ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/479 "2011-05-26T20:39:48Z")
Oh, we like fresh meat new players. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/480 "2011-05-26T20:40:58Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not familiar with the term calvin game. Mind elaborating a bit? I don’t mind elaborating, Calvin played a scummy game even though he was town, he pushed players to the limit and even got me to nearly vote off a Mason. He asked questions of players that you wouldn’t want to answer but he got people thinking, so I just wonder if Gnarly was taking notes. If you want to se Calvins game you just need to go to FB [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=25)