# Genre Fiction Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387 "2011-05-19T01:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/481 "2011-05-26T20:41:17Z")
Seriously. Can’t code. Clown will eat me. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/482 "2011-05-26T20:44:12Z")
> [@SisterCoyote](#): > > Seriously. Can’t code. Clown will eat me. it’s [del] [/del] here anyway [del]like this[/del] ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/483 "2011-05-26T20:46:34Z")
> [@SisterCoyote](#): > > Oh, we like fresh meat new players. 😃 I have played with you before so I am not that new, find a real new player to intimidate 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/484 "2011-05-26T20:50:07Z")
> [@SisterCoyote](#): > > Seriously. Can’t code. Clown will eat me. If it weren’t for FB I wouldn’t be here so count your blessings. or not ---
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/485 "2011-05-26T20:59:50Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > If you want to se Calvins game you just need to go to FB I feel more and more out of touch, but what’s FB? Not facebook I assume. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/486 "2011-05-26T21:07:38Z")
> [@nesta](#): > > I feel more and more out of touch, but what’s FB? Not facebook I assume. 🙂 It was Facebook but honestely how else would I have found this game? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/487 "2011-05-26T21:18:17Z")
Commenting on my reread. Sorry in advance for the length. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > I’m not sure if I see any hints in the color that would guide us about mechanisms/setup in the game. There appears to be some kind of noose we are looking for, but if it is behind a door, I don’t see any way for that to be part of the game. > > However, worth asking. > > Is anyone in current possession of the noose? Please state clearly either way. > > I, Mahaloth, do not currently have the noose. **Mahaloth** got some flak for this, but it looks pro-town to me. They state up front they don’t think anyone has it, but it’s worth asking about. That seems very reasonable to me, given that color could be game impacting. For the record, I am not going to state whether or not I have the noose until there’s consensus for a mass noose claim. > [@Zeriel](#): > > I have no noose. Also, this color makes me feel tingly inside–or maybe that’s the tiger balls I’ve been eating. and > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Indeed. He also has a rock that keeps tigers away. Okay, here we two short posts with the word “tiger” in them. This is not a word typically seen in mafia games. I see several possibilities and I’m sure there’s more. In order from more likely to less likely: 1. They’re scum who each have to put some keyword into a post sometime during the Day in order to charge some power. 2. They have roles where they know of the other role but not the identity and this is how they found each other. 3. It’s pure coincidence. 4. They’re masons trying to breadcrumb each other. I’d like to hear an explanation from both **Zeriel** and **Tom**. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Mahaloth, do you have any reason to believe that there is a McGuffin (noose or anything else) in the game? I don’t see any way for it to be a part of the game, based on the color, but I’m wondering if you know otherwise and that’s why you asked. This is an odd statement. Why does **Normal** ask for a reason for there to be a McGuffin? We know the color may be operative, because the moderator said so. The moderator made explicit mention of a noose in the opening color. It’s a reasonable inference. > [@MHaye](#): > > > [@Mahaloth](#): > > > > However, worth asking. > > > > Is anyone in current possession of the noose? Please state clearly either way. > > > > I, Mahaloth, do not currently have the noose. > > What makes you think anyone has the noose? > > The colour says that all 21 of us left without their prize; consequently it appears that no-one has it. Or at least, we have no reason to suppose anyone has it. > > So why do you think someone does? **MHaye** has skipped the part where **Mahaloth** says they don’t think it’s a part of the game. Conveniently, this make **Mahaloth** look bad. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I’m keeping my vote, though, as I want him to claim. This bothers me. If **Astral** is what they claim, forcing the claim was anti-town. A player with a lot of heat is not going to be Night-killed by scum. By forcing the claim, if truthful, we signed an investigator’s death warrant. We should be voting to lynch, not voting to force claims. If **Astral** is not town, then there’s no point in forcing a claim. Simply lynch them. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > [Quote=Red Skeezix] > > [Quote=Astral Rejection] > > [Quote=Red Skeezix] > Name: R. Daneel Olivaw > Universe/Story: The Caves of Steel > Role: Weak Cop > Alignment: Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords > Powers: Each night you may choose a player to investigate. You will learn whether or not that player is a member of the Associated League of Evil. > Wincondition: You win when all threats to the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords have been vanquished AND at least one member of the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords are alive. This sounds like “regular” cop. What are the limitations? [/quote] You can only determine if a player is a member of the Associated League of Evil or not. A full cop investigates a player and determines their alignment. [/quote] That’s my discussion with Red. [/QUOTE] Assuming **Astral** is being truthful, I’m now thinking that **Red** ’s reply indicates the existence of a godfather (who is aligned scum, but not a member of ALE), and not necessarily third parties (who are not aligned scum, and not members of ALE). But this not address the problem about this power being called “weak”. Perhaps the moderator has an idiosyncratic use; I’ve been burned by exactly that by moderators in several games. I think the more likely case is that **Astral** is not town. I also think an immediate lynch is premature, since we can better judge their alignment via the information they reveal. > [@special\_ed](#): > > I thought I was clear. > > Obviously before Astral claimed I was pressing him hard based on what appeared to be mistakes made by a possible Scum. > > After he claimed, I voted for him because his claim didn’t make sense. > > 1. He didn’t immediately post his role PM As someone else pointed out, a three minute delay between claim and PM post is not large. I don’t consider it suspicious. The rest of **ed** ’s case is reasonable (omitted above), but I wonder why their opening issue is so flaky. I’d like to hear an explanation from **ed** about this. > [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > **Mahaloth** , why the sudden interest in the noose? You got onto Astral early for misreading the win conditions and his PM, but the color in the intro clearly stated that this noose was still behind the door that we are trying to get into. Then, a couple people asked you about it. > > Once you started getting questions, you backed off your request a little too quickly, and you never actually answered the questions, Why were you interested? > > This dismissal just seemed a little too quick for me, after you were questioned. Since the goal of the game is to get this noose in the first place, it makes me wonder if you have some ulterior motive for asking the question. Their interest was not “sudden”, the post was one of the first posts after the opening color. The noose question is reasonable. I think this whole line of pressure on **Mahaloth** is misplaced. Is it because these players don’t want us to consider a noose McGuffin? Are they trying to gotcha on a player who made an early observation outside the usual Day-One conversation topics? > [@Zeriel](#): > > Many games have Night 0 starts. Games with Night starts where powers are usable call it “Night One”. The “Zero” part indicates that it is not regular Night. > [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > you play with words? let’s say i ‘changed’ it. does that make me scum? others have disagreed with you. i’ll ask the same question **Astral** asked me. why aren’t you voting for me? because when i flip town you’d have a lot of explaining to do? > > smudge, smudge, smudge and still no vote for me. you just want to save yourself? maybe you and **Mahaloth** are friends? :rolleyes: This post is doing exactly what the poster is complaining about. I find most accusations of “smudging” to be weak. Townies must express suspicion about other players–that, along with votes, is how we figure out who is scum. Attacking players for doing so is extremely counter-productive. Only players who backhandedly throw suspicion should be called out. Players who are up front about should not be. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > You realize I only get one vote, right? Just one? Actually, the rules don’t state how many votes we get. Do you have additional information or did I miss something? > [@SisterCoyote](#): > > Astral – I haven’t bothered claiming for two reasons. > > 1. Up until your vote, I wasn’t in any danger of being lynched. As you are still the Lynch Leader, and I could put you two votes up, I’m still in less danger than you are of being lynched. And anyone who’s played with me before knows that I’m not inclined to claim early and I don’t like early (unprovoked – your situation is slightly different) claims in general. > > That said, > > 1. I’m Vanilla Town. However, since Scum are going to claim exactly the same thing, this gets no heat off my head. > > I keep going back and forth on whether I believe your claim and your explanation, but in the interest of saving my own hide since I _know_ I’m Town, and have no idea whether you are or not: > > **vote: Astral Rejection** This is an anti-town vote. Instead of voting for whoever you find most suspicious, you vote to prevent yourself from being lynched. You are completely avoiding taking any responsibility for your vote, taking the expedient route instead. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Currently I’m most suspicious of **vote SisterCoyote** Depending on the replies of the players I asked questions of, I may place more votes. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/488 "2011-05-26T21:30:01Z")
Astral’s claim > [@](#): > > Name: R. Daneel Olivaw > Universe/Story: The Caves of Steel > Role: Weak Cop > Alignment: Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords > Powers: Each night you may choose a player to investigate. You will learn whether or not that player is a member of the Associated League of Evil. > Wincondition: You win when all threats to the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords have been vanquished AND at least one member of the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords are alive. Sister’s claim > [@](#): > > Name: Salvor Hardin > Alignment: Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords > Universe/Story: Foundation > Role: Vanilla > Powers: None > Wincondition: You win when all threats to the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords have been vanquished AND at least one member of the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords are alive. ---
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/489 "2011-05-26T21:34:57Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > It was Facebook but honestely how else would I have found this game? Ah, OK. I didn’t know there were was anything going on 'dope mafia-wise on facebook. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/490 "2011-05-26T21:45:19Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Astral’s claim > > > [@](#): > > > > Name: R. Daneel Olivaw > > Universe/Story: The Caves of Steel > > Role: Weak Cop > > Alignment: Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords > > Powers: Each night you may choose a player to investigate. You will learn whether or not that player is a member of the Associated League of Evil. > > Wincondition: You win when all threats to the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords have been vanquished AND at least one member of the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords are alive. > > Sister’s claim > > > [@](#): > > > > Name: Salvor Hardin > > Alignment: Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords > > Universe/Story: Foundation > > Role: Vanilla > > Powers: None > > Wincondition: You win when all threats to the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords have been vanquished AND at least one member of the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords are alive. Thanks for this, Ed - truly eye-opening. **Vote Astral** ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/491 "2011-05-26T21:45:47Z")
Is it of interest that the order of items in the claim are different? FWIW, my PM’s order of fields matches Sister’s. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/492 "2011-05-26T21:58:28Z")
As do mine which matches the sample PMs that Red provided. I’m not sure sort of cutting and pasting would result in swapping the universe and alignment categories but barring half or so of the players claiming to match Astral, I’m going to take it as a sign that jiggery-pokery was occurring. **Vote Astral** ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/493 "2011-05-26T22:06:20Z")
Blame Red. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/494 "2011-05-26T22:48:38Z")
I guess this is worth a shot, since it’ll be what finally kills me otherwise. \*\* Red, will you vouch that the ORDER of items in my PM is exactly how you wrote it? I realize you can’t vouch for the content without breaking the game.\*\* This way, you guys can choose to elieve or disbelieve my claim on its own merits, without the particular way the mod decided to write it entering into the equation. I expect the answer to be “No, I won’t vouch,” so this is a long shot at best. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/495 "2011-05-26T23:11:43Z")
you could post a screenshot of the pm, perhaps ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/496 "2011-05-26T23:14:13Z")
Will do. I’m at work right now, screenshot will be up later tonight. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/497 "2011-05-26T23:14:23Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > you could post a screenshot of the pm, perhaps The last time someone did that, the Mod clamped down on it hard and fast. Don’t expect Red to give permission. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/498 "2011-05-26T23:17:02Z")
Firstly, apologies for being a bit quiet. A second game may well have been a mistake. Still, I’ll do my best to keep up in both. This game’s Day is scheduled to run over the weekend, while Alice Mafia’s current Day ends early Saturday morning, so I’ll be prioritising that game in the near future. I’ll be back over the weekend. Also, a belated greeting to nesta. I don’t believe you’ve played since the bloodbath that was Dotchan’s Ancient China game on Idlemafia; the only game to reliably kill one-half the living players in a two-Day period. Having just caught up with the developments of the last 48 hours or so, I’ll pontificate on a couple of things. I might split the posts to make the waffle easier to follow. Astral and the Weak Cop claim. When I read the claim, I was somewhat suspicious. ALE drinkers (that is, members of the Associated League of Evil) sometimes try to make fake detective claims. When faced with the necessity of a false Day 1 claim, the ALE drinkers have to give us (the players as a whole) a reason not to lynch them. A Vanilla CARS claim isn’t going to cut the mustard, so the ALE drinker has to fake a power role. The history of fake detective claims isn’t inspiring. Astral’s claim is to be able to tell whether his subject is an ALE drinker or not. The obvious suggestion is that there are self-aligned players (that is, players who are neither aligned with the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords or the Associated League of Evil.) Astral’s investigation would show “not ALE.” This is an extremely convenient claim if Astral is in fact an ALE drinker, because that’s the information the ALE drinkers already have. In general, it’s better to hand an early claimant to a Detective role a bit of rope and see if they hang themselves with it. If we leave Astral alive, either he will turn up a series of names he claims are Town, or he fingers an ALE drinker or two. Even if he is fake-claiming, he can’t (in the early or mid game) falsely investigate a player as an ALE drinker; the result will be his lynch the next Day, at a point where a 1-for-1 exchange is still to the Slumlord’s advantage. It’s only when we near LyLo that we need to worry about a false bussing. That being said, the ordering of the information in Astral’s PM doesn’t look good for him. It inclines me to vote for him. (My own PM’s information matches that of the PM Sister Coyote claims is hers.) I’m going to sleep on it for now, but I’m leaning towards an Astral vote. Another reason to delay is that we are over half way towards the hammer threshold, I think. I wouldn’t want us to slip over by accident. More later. How much later depends on how long I can keep my eyes open (it’s quarter past midnight here.) ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/499 "2011-05-26T23:31:12Z")
From the rules: "#You may post any communication from the moderator. " Looks like I’m good to post a screenshot. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/500 "2011-05-26T23:55:12Z")
I got in trouble for posting a screenshot during the Halloween game over on Idle. I think it is frowned upon, even when mod communication is shareable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=26)