# Genre Fiction Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387 "2011-05-19T01:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/601 "2011-05-29T01:18:42Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > i have replied to **Astral** and **Mahaloth** in previous posts so i’ll address **Silver Jan**. > . Where have you replied to the whole “poking people for reactions” vs “poking holes in arguments” change-a-roo you did? ---
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/602 "2011-05-29T02:11:18Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > His. And thank you for not capitalizing my username - for some reason people have a tendency to do that, I have no idea why. As a fellow lower case username I know this can be a little disconcerting. > [@](#): > > What’s so bold about it? I had already made it clear I felt the suspicions on here were unfounded prior to the claim. It’s bold because it’s so unequivocal. Yes, you defended **Astral** right off the bat. If you already know **Astral’s** alignment you could have a motive for this defense. **Tom** and **Normal** had just immediately unvoted **Astral** following his claim, and then you said just this: > [@fubbleskag](#): > > fwiw, I believe you. You posted that for a reason, and all I can think of is that you either wanted to diffuse suspicion on your fellow scum, or you immediately believed his claim because you know he’s not scum and wanted to be on the record. I think the former more likely, but whatever **Astral’s** alignment I find this strong defense scummy. > [@](#): > > I joked about it because the question was ridiculous and didn’t deserve to be taken seriously. **Weedy** asked that since you thought **Astral** was a cop why you weren’t more actively trying to find someone to put on the block in his place. I think that was a very good question. Why do you think it was ridiculous? > [@](#): > > Really? Because just a few lines ago it almost sounded like you agreed that I wasn’t defending him nearly enough. Here’s how things look from my perspective: [ol] [li] You defend **Astral** very strongly because you know his alignment.[/li][li] To cover your bases you post a very noncommittal hypothetical so that you can defend yourself later when heat falls on you for that defense.[/li][li] You shrug off a question about why you are picking someone to defend rather than looking for scum.[/li][li] **ed** posts the two unmatching claim PMs and you immediately vote for **Astral**. Perhaps you gave up on defending **Astral** at this point and wanted to finally get on the bandwagon, and the PMs were a good excuse to drastically change your view.[/li][li] You bring up the screenshot idea, and then say you can fabricate one without photoshop. I think you have one ready to go.[/li][/ol] > [@](#): > > And I would _still_ like to hear the logic behind it. The logic behind not allowing screenshots has already been explained a number of times. It seems you might be relatively new to the game and the way it’s played on this board. To an extent I am too, but I believe the general attitude is since this isn’t an image board (by choice) that the game should be played entirely within this venue. I think that screenshot posting would put an undue burden on the players who are less technically savvy. > [@](#): > > I suggested that he could post a screenshot - at no point did I say I would take it as proof of anything. Of course a screenshot isn’t absolute proof, but why would you suggest one if it wouldn’t in some way authenticate his claim? > [@](#): > > So, your final thought is that I’m voting for **Astral** because I know that he’s scum because I’m scum? Well, yes and no. You both being scum is one possibility I find likely. I find you both scummy, but I’ve been wrong on Day 1 before, so I don’t think lynching **Astral** Today is a good idea. Regardless of **Astral’s** alignment your quick defense and then vote indicate that you know what it is. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/603 "2011-05-29T02:16:53Z")
> [@nesta](#): > > You posted that for a reason, and all I can think of is that you either wanted to diffuse suspicion on your fellow scum, or you immediately believed his claim because you know he’s not scum and wanted to be on the record. I think the former more likely, but whatever **Astral’s** alignment I find this strong defense scummy. **Vote: FUBBLESKAG** ---
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/604 "2011-05-29T03:23:55Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > 1. crystallized huh? then it isn’t bulletproof? i guess those words aren’t mutually exclusive but don’t seem to match. leaving wiggle room in case i flip Town? In case you flip Town? If **Astral** is town he wouldn’t need to leave wiggle room. If he’s scum he would probably know how you’re going to flip. What exactly are you accusing him of here? ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/605 "2011-05-29T04:24:04Z")
**Gnarlycharlie** ’s response to the case against him is more convincing to me than the case itself. It seems to consist mostly saying how sorry people will be when he flips town, and unsubstantiated counter-accusations. **Nesta’s** case against **fubbleskag** is also persuasive. I need to think about this a bit more. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/606 "2011-05-29T07:26:29Z")
Originally quoted by\*\* Gnarlycharlie\*\* > [@](#): > > Jan, you were asking me to comment and i replied asking to what specifically. then you reply with a vote for me. why ask if you were going to vote for me anyway? perhaps you’re comparing my play now to our previous games too much. it also could mean you’re scum. @\*\* Gnarly\*\* I had not planned on voting for you at all. I wanted you to comment on ANYTHING and you you just avoided the question. Maybe I am comparing the games too much ☹ All you have done is avoid questions and get mad at people as far as I can see. I voted for you to get some sort of reaction and I didn’t get one!! @\*\* Ed\*\* you were right about me hemming and hawing, I wanted\*\* Gnarly\*\* to do some Scum hunting but after his reply to me I think my vote could be very well placed. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/607 "2011-05-29T12:45:11Z")
> [@nesta](#): > > It’s bold because it’s so unequivocal. Yes, you defended **Astral** right off the bat. I made a [single post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13834747#post13834747) in **Astral’s** defense, yet you keep trying to make it sound like I came to his defense swiftly and strongly. > [@](#): > > If you already know **Astral’s** alignment you could have a motive for this defense. **Tom** and **Normal** had just immediately unvoted **Astral** following his claim, and then you said just this: > > You posted that for a reason, and all I can think of is that you either wanted to diffuse suspicion on your fellow scum, or you immediately believed his claim because you know he’s not scum and wanted to be on the record. I think the former more likely, but whatever **Astral’s** alignment I find this strong defense scummy. Again with the claims of “strong defense”. I made a single post in his defense. In fact, a potential flaw in my defense was even pointed out by **Normal Phase** shortly thereafter. I’m not sure why you feel the need to assign such extreme motivations to my actions, but the fact is I just wasn’t convinced that Astral hadn’t just made a stupid mistake. > [@](#): > > **Weedy** asked that since you thought **Astral** was a cop why you weren’t more actively trying to find someone to put on the block in his place. I think that was a very good question. Why do you think it was ridiculous? He asked me what I was “going to do about it”, as if I could single-handedly stop everyone from lynching **Astral** , which is what I found ridiculous. [quote] [li] To cover your bases you post a very noncommittal hypothetical so that you can defend yourself later when heat falls on you for that defense.[/li][/quote] I never even got as far as posting my hypothetical; I was asking a question about scum behaviour in hopes of being able to do so, but nobody felt like giving me any information, so I dropped it. [quote] [li] **ed** posts the two unmatching claim PMs and you immediately vote for **Astral**. Perhaps you gave up on defending **Astral** at this point and wanted to finally get on the bandwagon, and the PMs were a good excuse to drastically change your view.[/li][/quote] The PMs were a good excuse to change my view, they’re quite frankly damning evidence in my opinion. If Town decides not to lynch **Astral** as a strategic move, I’m more than happy to unvote - but so far I haven’t heard any serious talk about that. > [@](#): > > The logic behind not allowing screenshots has already been explained a number of times. It seems you might be relatively new to the game and the way it’s played on this board. To an extent I am too, but I believe the general attitude is since this isn’t an image board (by choice) that the game should be played entirely within this venue. I think that screenshot posting would put an undue burden on the players who are less technically savvy. And I’ve already replied to that response that I disagree with the first point, but agree to the second. > [@](#): > > Of course a screenshot isn’t absolute proof, but why would you suggest one if it wouldn’t in some way authenticate his claim? It’s not absolute proof. Nothing we do here can be considered absolute until the moderator tells us whether someone was Town or Scum, but a screenshot is certainly more difficult to fake than a copy/pasted PM. > [@](#): > > Well, yes and no. You both being scum is one possibility I find likely. I find you both scummy, but I’ve been wrong on Day 1 before, so I don’t think lynching **Astral** Today is a good idea. Regardless of **Astral’s** alignment your quick defense and then vote indicate that you know what it is. I don’t **know** anything about his alignment any more than you do. > [@special\_ed](#): > > **Vote: FUBBLESKAG** Thanks, dick. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/608 "2011-05-29T12:46:19Z")
NETA: **ed’s** a dick for the uppercase, not the vote ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/609 "2011-05-29T15:51:07Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > I made a [single post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13834747#post13834747) in **Astral’s** defense, yet you keep trying to make it sound like I came to his defense swiftly and strongly. > [@fubbleskag](#): > > fwiw, I believe you. hmmm… > [@fubbleskag](#): > > He asked me what I was “going to do about it”, as if I could single-handedly stop everyone from lynching **Astral** , which is what I found ridiculous. I agree that it was a ridiculous question. But, then, why did you answer it by voting? > [@fubbleskag](#): > > Thanks, dick. 😃 No offense was intended, of course. Though judging by the smiley, none was taken 😃 ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/610 "2011-05-29T15:52:23Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > The PMs were a good excuse to change my view, they’re quite frankly damning evidence in my opinion. If Town decides not to lynch **Astral** as a strategic move, I’m more than happy to unvote - but so far I haven’t heard any serious talk about that. Did you really mean to say it was an excuse to change your view and not a reason? ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/611 "2011-05-29T16:06:28Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > hmmm… I don’t consider my statement of belief as ‘coming to his defense’, but even if we all decided that it is, it still wouldn’t sway the level it to anywhere near the realm of ‘swift and strong’. > [@](#): > > I agree that it was a ridiculous question. > > But, then, why did you answer it by voting? I changed my position on **Astral** based on the evidence you were so kind to point out, and voted accordingly. > [@](#): > > No offense was intended, of course. Though judging by the smiley, none was taken 😃 None at all. > [@special\_ed](#): > > Did you really mean to say it was an excuse to change your view and not a reason? No. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/612 "2011-05-29T18:17:09Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Where have you replied to the whole “poking people for reactions” vs “poking holes in arguments” change-a-roo you did? no switcheroo. who said the two were necessarily different or mutually exclusive? while i PRIMARILY would characterize what i do as poking holes in arguments, i also poke for reactions. people can say interesting things when certain buttons are pushed. if that doesn’t satisfy you, i don’t think anything else i say will. > [@Weedy](#): > > I’ve never played one of these before, but it looks like fun, so, hey, I’m in. > [@Weedy](#): > > **Gnarlycharlie** ’s response to the case against him is more convincing to me than the case itself. It seems to consist mostly saying how sorry people will be when he flips town, and unsubstantiated counter-accusations. mostly saying? how do you define mostly? more than 50%? interesting. for someone who’s never played you seem to have some aggressiveness. i was pretty timid my first game. although you don’t really say anything about me, it says something about you. either you have an above average amount of confidence or you’re being coached. how’s that for poking? is it scummy? is it a fair observation? i think it may draw some reaction whether it’s agreement or dissent. ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/613 "2011-05-29T18:20:46Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > Originally quoted by\*\* Gnarlycharlie\*\* > > @\*\* Gnarly\*\* I had not planned on voting for you at all. I wanted you to comment on ANYTHING and you you just avoided the question. Maybe I am comparing the games too much ☹ > > All you have done is avoid questions and get mad at people as far as I can see. I voted for you to get some sort of reaction and I didn’t get one!! so basically you’re meta-gaming. fair enough. but if you check my activity in my current games, they have been equally less than my usual. RL is what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/614 "2011-05-29T18:46:06Z")
I don’t often quote people I want to know what is said overall. When I said lie, it’s just cos I want to know more. At the moment SisC is there, and so is Pleo. To be honest Gnarly isn’t rearlly on my hit list. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/615 "2011-05-29T18:56:40Z")
Unvote Gnarly ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/616 "2011-05-29T18:58:07Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I don’t often quote people I want to know what is said overall. When I said lie, it’s just cos I want to know more. At the moment SisC is there, and so is Pleo. To be honest Gnarly isn’t rearlly on my hit list. What does all this mean? To what are you referring? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/617 "2011-05-29T19:48:42Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I don’t often quote people I want to know what is said overall. When I said lie, it’s just cos I want to know more. At the moment SisC is there, and so is Pleo. To be honest Gnarly isn’t rearlly on my hit list. Can you maybe rewrite that as an actual sentence? Or three? ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/618 "2011-05-29T21:24:14Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > mostly saying? how do you define mostly? more than 50%? interesting. for someone who’s never played you seem to have some aggressiveness. i was pretty timid my first game. although you don’t really say anything about me, it says something about you. either you have an above average amount of confidence or you’re being coached. > > how’s that for poking? is it scummy? is it a fair observation? i think it may draw some reaction whether it’s agreement or dissent. I haven’t played before so I am still finding my feet. I don’t know whether to post a lot or little. This week I have been working all day on the computer, so it’s easy to hit refresh on this thread, read and reply. I am posting a lot because I want Town to lynch the right person, and talking about who that might be seems the only way to make that happen. How else do we find scum? I would be happy to learn some strategies, because I don’t really know what to do at the moment. I don’t think my posting a lot hurts anything though. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/619 "2011-05-29T22:17:49Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > I am posting a lot because I want Town to lynch the right person, and talking about who that might be seems the only way to make that happen. How else do we find scum? I would be happy to learn some strategies, because I don’t really know what to do at the moment. I don’t think my posting a lot hurts anything though. There are a wide range of posting frequencies and habits. One thing most players agree on is that low posting levels across the board is bad for the Town. If no-one’s saying much, the Mafia can get away with not saying much either. Over the Days, people’s positions will evolve. As they do so, we can look back and attempt to determine why, and whether the change is Town-motivated or not. I’m still pondering my vote, from the shortlist of suspects I commented on earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/620 "2011-05-30T02:35:23Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > Unvote Gnarly **Please make all unvotes in bold red. Thanks.** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=32)