# Genre Fiction Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387 "2011-05-19T01:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/701 "2011-06-01T20:22:34Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > How is this different than flipping a coin to see who wins? I thought it was at first, but the town can gain information from who is killed. Scum could kill randomly and it would be then truly be a coin flip. But scum might be tempted to push the odds in their favor by killing some town instead of others. For example, killing those who have expressed trust in scum or seem likely to vote for town. But then town could try to outguess scum based on who’s been killed. The rational tactic for both teams would probably be random lynches and kills. But when was the last time players on either team played rationally around here? Thus, a game. I don’t think it would be an especially fun game, but there it is. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/702 "2011-06-01T21:11:21Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > The setup for the latest game was 17 players, 2 mafia. So six mislynches. Post-death strategy talk allowed (though of course only those night killed were given any credibility). Town dragged the game back from apparent loss by lynching the two mafiosi on the last two days. I don’t think anybody who chimed in on that last three-handed lynch had it right on who the lynchee’s partner was. > > The link, if you’re curious: [Small Mafia Game The Campground [Concluded]](http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?135271-The-Campground-Concluded) This game makes no sense to me whatsoever. Immediately following the opening color post, a player votes for another player for no reason whatsoever. The second post is also a vote, as is the third. And the fifth, and the sixth, and the seventh, all with no or spurious reasons given. Here’s a sample vote: > [@](#): > > vote: Who am i? > > Because your post is eerily similar to Saregona’s style. And he’s shady. At this point in the game, Who am i? hasn’t posted yet. … WTF is going on over there? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/703 "2011-06-01T21:11:57Z")
I’m surprised anyone could think that lack of reveals make it a crapshoot. It’s not remotely (beyond that if it’s balanced properly each side will have roughly an equal chance to earn a win). First, obviously the same scum-hunting techniques that people use before the first scum flips in any game will still work. Pressure enough people, hope someone gives off scum tells or (even better, though less likely) hope someone reacts the wrong way to pressure on _someone else_. Hope you’re good enough to separate the signal from the noise. Note, you probably won’t be at near your usual rate, which is why the large buffer of mislynches. Second, look for voting patterns – who’s putting themselves out there and who’s playing safe? Scum don’t have a lot of options for getting themselves out of trouble once they’re in it (and very low numbers to boot), so the incentive is for conservative play. That can leave traces. In the last game, about halfway through, I characterized the last mafia’s vote record as “safe safe safe”; that plus some comments that felt like he was putting on a front are what ultimately led to his lynch over super-hard-to-read unflappable townie A and loud-analytical-should have lynched him days ago just to be sure he’s not pulling one over on us-frame victim townie B. Third, (least effective, but fun) look at who dies and think about why. As I mentioned, that nightkilled players can still participate changes the incentives for the scum kills rather dramatically. Often it’s quiet players who are killed off in the hopes that paranoia builds on the active players who are continuously left alive. But if one of them suddenly dies, does it mean something? Frames can actually work in this format. Fourth, listening to night-killed players is legitimate strategy: they may have no better insight than you, but at least you know they’re town. And occasionally being dead leads to a clearer view of things. It’s more purely psychological than forms of mafia where certainty is common and rock-solid leads possible. You just never know, about anyone. It’s all judgment, and how good are you, really, at telling what distinguishes scum from townie, flat out, no crutches anywhere? I wouldn’t want to play one every day, but that’s why I like it. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/704 "2011-06-01T21:20:03Z")
I’m down with that, and it could be pretty fun. I was questioning the specific game you linked. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/705 "2011-06-01T21:20:06Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > This game makes no sense to me whatsoever. Immediately following the opening color post, a player votes for another player for no reason whatsoever. The second post is also a vote, as is the third. And the fifth, and the sixth, and the seventh, all with no or spurious reasons given. > > Here’s a sample vote: > > At this point in the game, Who am i? hasn’t posted yet. > > … WTF is going on over there? That’s why I say the culture is very different. Day one votes rarely have reasons given; it’s almost tradition. Even after day one there is a very high tolerance for reasonless votes. Remember the phases are very short, that’s part of it. A more subtle part (which I agree with in some ways and not in others) is a feeling that reasons are just smokescreen anyway: what matters is where your money is, and how people react under pressure. As I’ve alluded to a couple of times, playing over there frequently makes you work with very little, that’s just the way it is. Games are balanced to compensate. If you want to see actual analysis, both right and wrong, you’re better off reading backwards. Most of it’s towards the end. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/706 "2011-06-01T21:21:43Z")
I think Who Am I had posted, actually. It’s possible he’s changed his name in the interim. He’s got some weird inside joke going on that I’m not even trying to get. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/707 "2011-06-01T21:57:57Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Fourth, listening to night-killed players is legitimate strategy: they may have no better insight than you, but at least you know they’re town. And occasionally being dead leads to a clearer view of things. Are scum prohibited from Night-killing scum in typical games? If not, I think it would be highly beneficial for one scum to be Night-killed at some point in the game. Somewhat equivalent to a godfather. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/708 "2011-06-01T22:25:22Z")
Yes, though IIRC this is the first such game in which it’s been formalized. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/709 "2011-06-01T22:51:00Z")
I read the whole thread and while it was hilarious to read, I would want to kill half the players in it before Day 3. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/710 "2011-06-01T22:57:03Z")
Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/711 "2011-06-01T22:59:57Z")
But I love love love the 24 hour days. That game moves at a speed I find more thrilling. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/712 "2011-06-01T23:06:26Z")
**Night 1 is Over. Dawn Post and Some PMs Coming Right Up.** ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/713 "2011-06-01T23:08:14Z")
What the cock is this sea green shit ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/714 "2011-06-01T23:15:45Z")
The second dawn outside the ruined temple seemed to arrive without much fuss. Most of the assembly seemed strangely well rested despite the arid desert heat. That was until a roll was called and one was missing. But who was it who was missing? “The short one, it’s the short one what’s missing!” howled a voice from beyond the door. And sure enough Tyrion Lannister was no where to be found. **Special Ed** , Tyrion Lannister and Member of the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords is Dead. (Sorry for the crappy color, i’m getting slapped around silly at work. :() Day 2 will end on Monday, June 6th at 7pm ET. The hammer threshold for Day 2 is 10. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/715 "2011-06-01T23:23:32Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Are scum prohibited from Night-killing scum in typical games? If not, I think it would be highly beneficial for one scum to be Night-killed at some point in the game. Somewhat equivalent to a godfather. Tricky with only 2 Scum, though. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/716 "2011-06-02T00:04:33Z")
In what should come as no surprise whatsoever, I was unsuccessful in my investigation attempt. Scum have a roleblocker, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/717 "2011-06-02T00:32:18Z")
I’m assuming that means the scum figured we had a doctor, so didn’t target **Astral**. So, scum blocker… We know we have a Vig, and a weak cop, plus a the scum have a role blocker. … How many scum could we possibly have given that info? (I’m assuming **Astral** is legit, since if he was really scum, he would have made up a townie to claim as ok, from the other games I’ve read. If I assume wrong, let me know). ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/718 "2011-06-02T01:02:29Z")
It’s either Astral or Gnarlly for me. Honestly, I lean toward gnarly at this point. All the same as yesterDay. \*\*Vote gnarly. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/719 "2011-06-02T03:31:51Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Sorry if that came off aggressive. To be fair, Tom’s a nicer guy. 😛 no problem. just having a little fun until Day. i expect it to be less friendly. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > It’s either Astral or Gnarlly for me. Honestly, I lean toward gnarly at this point. All the same as yesterDay. > > \*\*Vote gnarly. > \*\* bleached see what i mean. 😉 if all you have on me is a lack of contribution and a perceived backing off, i’m actually disappointed. will do some rereading. i have some time now although we’re still packing and will be done moving Sunday my time (GMT+8). for now: **Vote Astral** will there be an OMGUS soon? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/720 "2011-06-02T03:39:27Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > **Vote Astral** Do you mind explaining this vote? After all that happened yesterday, and overnight (including **Astral** ’s claim of a roleblocker), why are you voting for him? Do you not believe him? Why don’t you believe him? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=37)