# Genre Fiction Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387 "2011-05-19T01:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/741 "2011-06-02T05:58:23Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > @ Astral – Who did you send in orders on, or what is your reasoning for not revealing that? Is there value in revealing who I choose to investigate? That’s a serious question - I’ve never been a cop before. My gut feeling is that, without a result, telling scum who I investigated isn’t worth it. Town gains nothing by learning who I tried to investigate, and scum learns who I would have, letting them know who I may or may not have suspicions on. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Read more games. Power roles reveal themselves all over the place sometimes via behavior, via suggestions and via suppositions about the game state. If town believes you are the cop and are being roleblocked, then they’re going to devote a lot of time and energy to finding that rb as they’re still hunting for scum but they get the bonus of freeing up their cop. If there is no rb that time and energy is wasted. The more scum can deflect and distract the better for them. You say this, but… > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I misspoke when I send hunt for a scum roleblocker. But if town is building cases and analyzing data on the assumption that there is a roleblocker when in fact, that roleblocker does not exist then town is chasing a faulty premise and their conclusions become faulty. That is more in line with what I meant. … you meant this. I’m confused. You snarkily attack me, telling me I need to “read more games,” and you seem to very clearly say town is devoting time and energy into finding the roleblocker. You further elaborate that power roles (referring specifically here to scum roleblockers, I assume) reveal themselves all the time, making it a worthwhile chase. And then you immediately back down when called on it, saying that you never meant town hunts for them at all? Why bring up that power roles reveal themselves, then? Further, what does town lose if I claim there’s a roleblocker and they’re spending all their time blocking me? When I die, you’ll see I’m telling the truth. Nobody else so far has been affected by it. It’s not going to radically destabilize the game. You’re making a mountain out of a molehill here, and you’re changing your story. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/742 "2011-06-02T06:02:40Z")
Gnarly, would you answer my direct questions to you? > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Do you have a case beyond not believing my claim? What do you think of my case-building attempts yesterDay? Did they seem honest to you, or disingenuous? What do you think about the other cases on me? Do you agree with them, or find them suspect? For instance, do you like Zeriel’s case, which as point number one concluded while I might be a townie and not paying attention, I should still be lynched for it? Do you find those cases reinforce yours, or do they make you reconsider? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/743 "2011-06-02T06:05:53Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > i will NOT unvote for the rest of the Day even to save myself. i will continue with the limited time i have to contribute and share my thoughts. i may even ‘vote’ even if they will note count ala **Pleo** or just FOS. > > with that i continue to pack. good day! Also, I’d like to caution you that this does not help your team, be it scum or town, in any way. We want you to play, and these votes are by no means set in stone. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/744 "2011-06-02T06:10:23Z")
I haven’t made a mountain at all. I haven’t said anything other than, in as many words, that I’m not planning on revoting you. That is the extent of my commentary on this game. Everything else was a longwinded extemporaneous exercise on my part to answer Hirka’s question as to why a false claiming cop would claim being blocked. And power roles DO reveal themselves and there have been games where players have made astute guesses on who to lynch based on what they supposed the makeup of the scum team is. If you are correct in there being a roleblocker then town loses nothing. If you are not correct then town begins making incorrect assumptions, assumptions that could lead to wildly different scum teams down the road. However, we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it. I’m more than happy to take claims as written and see how they shake out down the line. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/745 "2011-06-02T06:22:03Z")
Well this is a strange start to a day. I want to give **Astral** the benefit of the doubt for now because he sounds plausible. \*\*gnarley’s \*\*vote on himself is like saying “please read what I have to say” I don’t think it’s a scum vote because I don’t think scum would vote for themselves like that. It’s a bit annoying that he has done it. If he flips Town people will reconsider his arguments. I don’t like it when people vote for themselves! It doesn’t help either team. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/746 "2011-06-02T06:34:24Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > \*\*gnarley’s \*\*vote on himself is like saying “please read what I have to say” I don’t think it’s a scum vote because I don’t think scum would vote for themselves like that. It’s a bit annoying that he has done it. If he flips Town people will reconsider his arguments. I don’t like it when people vote for themselves! It doesn’t help either team. 1. Once again, be careful when saying “scum wouldn’t do that.” Scum will do anything and everything to win. A scum gnarly could make this play in an attempt to get us to unvote him. It’s fair to assign this event a town or scum bias depending on how you interpret it. Just don’t totally disregard other interpretations when making your decision. 1. As far as I can tell, gnarly has no arguments. There’s little for us to go back and check on when he flips if he’s town. That’s why I hope he reconsiders and tries to find scum. As it stands, he’s not helping town at all, while still trying to garner sympathy so we don’t lynch him. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/747 "2011-06-02T07:46:08Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > 1. Once again, be careful when saying “scum wouldn’t do that.” Scum will do anything and everything to win. A scum gnarly could make this play in an attempt to get us to unvote him. > > It’s fair to assign this event a town or scum bias depending on how you interpret it. Just don’t totally disregard other interpretations when making your decision. > > 1. As far as I can tell, gnarly has no arguments. There’s little for us to go back and check on when he flips if he’s town. That’s why I hope he reconsiders and tries to find scum. As it stands, he’s not helping town at all, while still trying to garner sympathy so we don’t lynch him. Oh, I hadn’t thought of that. I do agree that\*\* gnarly\*\* has really only looked at **Astral** as scum. The way that looks is as if **gnarly** is scum and wants town to lynch\*\* Astral\*\*. I also agree that he isn’t helping town at all at the moment. In fact he hasn’t really said much of anything. > [@](#): > > Is there value in revealing who I choose to investigate? That’s a serious question - I’ve never been a cop before. My gut feeling is that, without a result, telling scum who I investigated isn’t worth it. Town gains nothing by learning who I tried to investigate, and scum learns who I would have, letting them know who I may or may not have suspicions on. I don’t know that if you reveal who you wanted to investigate would be helpful or not but I think that it is very helpful to know who you are suspicious of, in fact that’s what a vote says, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/748 "2011-06-02T08:38:11Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Oh, I forgot the staying alive part. If we lynch him and he’s CARS, that sucks, we lynched a cop. If we keep him alive and he’s CARS, then he can continue to provide input and possibly investigation results that would become more trustworthy if he dies later on. If we lynch him and he’s ALE, hurray! If we keep him alive and he’s ALE, then we have more opportunities to catch him out or catch other scum slipping up in reference to him. Basically, I agree with Pleonast from yesterday. **He’s provided a way for us to test his claim,** let’s do that and reconvene on Day 4ish while looking for other scummy people. No he hasn’t. Or rather, with the claim of a roleblocker, the only way we had to test his claim has vanished. What opportunities do we have to catch him out, if he’s always reporting a block? ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/749 "2011-06-02T08:58:33Z")
The fact that Red won’t be revealing roles (something I didn’t realise until Night 1) does reduce the utility of the “Give Astral some rope and see what he comes up with” plan. Once Astral dies, we won’t learn what his role is. However, we will learn his alignment, which will show us whether he is trustworthy overall. Also, if he does turn out to be a Slumlord, we learn there is a roleblocker. I won’t be paying much attention to this game until the weekend, as usual. Alice Mafia’s Night falls first. ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/750 "2011-06-02T09:10:46Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Gnarly, would you answer my direct questions to you? > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Also, I’d like to caution you that this does not help your team, be it scum or town, in any way. We want you to play, and these votes are by no means set in stone. okay, let’s be clear. i’m NOT giving up on the game. it is my most strenuous way of expressing my disappointment in people’s reasoning. let me explain my D2 vote for you again. since in these boards, people seem to adhere more to the vote early and often belief, i did just that. it would be illogical to vote someone else since i have not gone through (reread) D1 yet. as i said i’m in the process of moving and have not gone through your casebuilding or Zeriel’s posts deeply. if i saw the logic of those posts, i would definitely change my vote (vote often, right?). now let me summarize what i believe is the case against me: 1. not voting **Astral** when i thought i found him suspicious 2. making a snarky remark to his question why i didn’t vote for him 3. voting for him after being told i should vote for who i think is suspicious 4. ‘backtracking’ on my poking around (which i have actually replied to) 5. not considering the other cases offered by other players i think i’ve already addressed #s 1 to 4. as for #5, i’m still packing and unable to reread D1. i have a few more days this Day so i will definitely contribute after our move. but i still will not unvote. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/751 "2011-06-02T09:45:37Z")
By way of bringing something new to the party, a quick look at TexCat’s votes yesterDay: He votes for Astral very quickly (third, in fact!) but doesn’t sound all that convinced: > [@TexCat](#): > > Astral seems to have claimed to be not town. He clearly states that his win condition is different. \*\*I’m having difficulty in understanding why scum would make such a statement. It doesn’t even seem to make much sense for a third party to make such a statement. Was it just a slip? \*\* Add this to his confusion over who is town and who is scum and I have to > > **Vote: Astral Rejection** Given that he can’t understand why scum or third-party would make such a statement, it’s a little odd that he “has” to vote. We get more of the same here: > [@TexCat](#): > > My vote remains on Astral for the moment. I don’t like the claim that his wincon was different, and the fact that he mentioned the rule change in the same post, indicating he must have had least seen the new wincon. I don’t like the confusion about which team is which. I’m not believing the role-claim. I would have asked more questions about it had I received it. And I’m unconvinced that it led to the confusion over teams. **Nevertheless, I still find it hard to believe that a scum or third party would announce that their wincon was different. Why would they do that?** Each time TexCat discusses his reasons for voting Astral, he talks about how he might be wrong. It smacks of pre-emptive defence. Later, however, much later, TexCat changes his vote to fubbleskag: > [@TexCat](#): > > I just don’t get it. You were unwilling to vote Astral before Ed posted the PMs. Then you used that as an excuse to change your vote. Now, in spite of our moderator basically telling us that the PMs are a null-tell, you stubbornly continue to call them “damning evidence” and leave your vote in place. > > **Unvote: Astral > Vote: fubbleskag** As fubs pointed out, this case is based on a misapprehension, of which more below. Even disregarding that, this seems like a weak vote. Firstly, it’s a real bandwagon vote - the 8th on fubs (at that time) and the 4th in 40 posts. Secondly, TexCat never articulates a scum motivation. He echoes the pattern of votes that others have pointed out (so much so that he misses a vital detail -see below) but doesn’t explain why this makes fubs scum. This is important because as I read it, the other votes for fubs were based on the idea that he was defending a scum buddy with his posts in support of Astral, and then jumping on the bandwagon when ed appeared to provide a smoking gun with the PMs. Given that TexCat unvoted Astral to vote fubs, he can’t possibly believe this case. But he doesn’t tell us what he does think fubs is trying to pull. As said, fubbleskag had moved his vote. The following posts, which all preceded TexCat’s vote, all demonstrate this: > [@fubbleskag](#): > > let’s make it not a tie > > **unvote Astral** NB - this vote was miscoded in blue, not red. It’s understandable that this could be missed. > [@fubbleskag](#): > > oh, and **vote Pleonast** > [@fubbleskag](#): > > > [@special\_ed](#): > > > > Did you just vote to put yourself in the lynch lead? > > technically, I unvoted to put myself in the lynch lead The last quote is the post immediately before TexCat’s vote, but posted c. 15 minutes before. To miss all of these posts by and to fubbleskag that show his vote has moved suggests a pretty high degree of skimming - specifically, of skimming the person TexCat is about to vote for. TexCat didn’t post after that vote, so he didn’t get a chance to change his vote. However, it seems pretty clear that he was very much following other players’ lead with his votes, both with Astral and fubs. I haven’t lost my suspicions of Zeriel, but in the interests of getting a response: \*\* vote TexCat\*\* ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/752 "2011-06-02T13:06:24Z")
I did see fubb’s unvote later. I was posting in a hurry and I was focused on fubb’s answer to my question which actually came after the unvote. > [@fubbleskag](#): > > > [@TexCat](#): > > > > The PMs did look quite damning for a moment. But then Normal Phase claimed her PM was in the same order as Astral’s. And then our moderator stepped in: > > > > So I can see the PMs as a momentary excuse to vote Astral, but I can hardly see them as a reason for your vote to remain there. Do you still see them as damning evidence, **fubbleskag**?? > > - > > I’m not willing to take the moderator’s post as evidence one way or the other, and it’s just as possible that **Normal Phase** is also scum\*. I think my vote reasons remain even after the unvote, but might have been amended to: I just don’t get it. You were unwilling to vote Astral before Ed posted the PMs. Then you used that as an excuse to change your vote. Now, in spite of our moderator basically telling us that the PMs are a null-tell, you stubbornly continue to call them “damning evidence” and leave your vote in place _long after the “damning evidence” has been de-bunked_. > [@Stanislaus](#): > > This is important because as I read it, the other votes for fubs were based on the idea that he was defending a scum buddy with his posts in support of Astral, and then jumping on the bandwagon when ed appeared to provide a smoking gun with the PMs. Given that TexCat unvoted Astral to vote fubs, he can’t possibly believe this case. But he doesn’t tell us what he does think fubs is trying to pull. I saw fubbleskag defending some one who I thought looked scummy, then jumping on a bandwagon for what was later shown to be a null-tell. This could have been fubbleskag defending a scum buddy, or it could have been a scummy fubbleskag defending a townie for the cred. The more important thing for me was the jumping on the bandwagon and then staying there and calling the evidence damning even after the posts from Normal and our mod. * * * Regarding my vote for Astral, I admit to ambivalent thoughts on it as shown in my posts. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/753 "2011-06-02T13:38:26Z")
Inner Stickler seems to be posting a lot and saying nothing. Some quick highlights: [quote=“Inner\_Stickler, post:229, topic:582387”] Normal, I don’t know what I think. At the beginning of the day, I was willing to chalk it up to breezy townie not paying much attention because hey, he’s town. I do find some of the scenarios you and Ed have been making a little more believable than Astral’s explanation; however, **I feel that he is adequately voted for and am more interested in looking to see if I can call out other scummy behavior.[**/QUOTE] Well that’s the hat, now for the cattle. Or possibly the fond reminiscences of “games I have known”… > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I believe there was a notorious game not here but on another site using LOTR color where a mass claim was called and because of how the roles broke down, scum were forced to claim things like “the sparrow that helped bilbo” and SC is referencing the other one. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Games have had scum cops before. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I don’t believe I’ve ever played in a game with a jester role. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I remember a Princess Bride game where the scum team had a poisoner who could poison one person every night, but they had to have said wifom or wine in one of their posts the preceding Day. Man, was that a crazy game. This is easily Inner’s favourite topic this thread. And that’s fine, but remember: he’s more interested in looking to see if he can call out other scummy behaviour. Which he does in posts like this one: > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > As far as this game goes, if Astral is scum then I’m suspicious of gnarlycharlie who looks like he’s trying to play the distancing game but if Astral is town than I don’t know. I tend to think pretty hard about who I vote for and I don’t tend to change easily. It’s a bad habit, I know. That magnificent piece of “maybe so, maybe no” analysis of gnarlycharlie (a whole fraction of a sentence) is the only thing I could find that consisted of “trying to find other scummy behaviour”. I could have missed something though - Inner? Inner ultimately voted Astral following ed’s PM post, and left the vote there. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/754 "2011-06-02T13:44:44Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > It’s either Astral or Gnarlly for me. Honestly, I lean toward gnarly at this point. All the same as yesterDay. > > Vote gnarly. Can you elaborate on this? I’d like to hear your reason for this vote. You said _“[a]ll the same as yesterDay”_, but I believe you voted for Astral yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/755 "2011-06-02T13:52:41Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > I saw fubbleskag defending some one who I thought looked scummy, then jumping on a bandwagon for what was later shown to be a null-tell. This could have been fubbleskag defending a scum buddy, or it could have been a scummy fubbleskag defending a townie for the cred. The more important thing for me was the jumping on the bandwagon and then staying there and calling the evidence damning even after the posts from Normal and our mod. I don’t see how “scummy fubbleskag defending a townie for the cred” works. It would go something like this: _Phase 1: Defend townie Astral when he gets in trouble for thinking CARS are anti-Town._ So far, this makes sense. _Phase 2: Vote for townie Astral when PM analysis seems to show that he’s definitely scum._ Even when you know for a fact he’ll flip the other way if lynched. Jumping on the bandwagon is a complete 180 on the original plan. _Phase 3: Keep voting for townie Astral when further input from Normal and the mod show that PM analysis is non-conclusive._ This is where it gets difficult - why would scum go out of their way to be so controversial? If fubs voted for Astral to keep his nose clean, why draw attention by sticking with his vote? He’s gone from unpopularly defending Astral to unpopularly condemning him in the face of the evidence. Why do that if he wants to win cred? ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/756 "2011-06-02T13:54:14Z")
Hmm. Nice case on **Inner** , **Stanislaus**. I’m going to check it out for myself before laying a vote – after all I can’t fault someone too much for some fluff on Day 1 – but on the other hand I get pinged too, once you put all that together. My philosophy tends to be: show me, don’t tell me. Don’t tell me you’re working hard to provoke scum, just do it. If you tell me but don’t show me then my heckles get raised in particular, of course. But, even more than that, “tellers” are establishing a defense before they’re questioned, and it shows your real interest lies in defending yourself as a top priority. That isn’t always scum either, but it tends to be a scum interest more often than not. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/757 "2011-06-02T14:42:19Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > if all you have on me is a lack of contribution and a perceived backing off, i’m actually disappointed. Well, then you won’t be disappointed because I’ve already explained that it isn’t either of those. It isn’t your lack of contribution. And I did not “perceive backing off”. Actually, you completely changed what you said and tried to pass it off without attracting attention. One more time. You said that you poke people and step back to watch reactions. When challenged on this, you tried to say that you poke holes in arguments which is quite different than poking people for reactions. Not only that, but you know this is the case and your above post I quoted is yet another attempt to glaze over the case on you by misrepresenting it. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/758 "2011-06-02T15:05:04Z")
I gotta say I don’t see that aspect of your argument at all, Mahaloth. It doesn’t mean you’re wrong, but still. Poking people to see what happens is a valid strategy for a townie in my book, and doesn’t need defense or qualification. **gnarlycharlie** , you need to quit with the self-vote. It’s emotional manipulation and it’s not fair to the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/759 "2011-06-02T15:13:55Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I gotta say I don’t see that aspect of your argument at all, Mahaloth. It doesn’t mean you’re wrong, but still. Poking people to see what happens is a valid strategy for a townie in my book, and doesn’t need defense or qualification. Then we disagree. I think poking people then stepping back to watch their reaction is a scummy way to stir up the pot. I think gnarly knew this, so he changed it to “poke holes in arguments” which sounds a lot better. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/760 "2011-06-02T15:16:52Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > so many votes. why am i not surprised? > so in love with their logic, on Day 2 at that. > to help you along i will, > **Unvote Astral** > **Vote gnarlycharlie** > > i will NOT unvote for the rest of the Day even to save myself. i will continue with the limited time i have to contribute and share my thoughts. i may even ‘vote’ even if they will note count ala **Pleo** or just FOS. > > with that i continue to pack. good day! **vote gnarlycharlie** for voting for a player they’re not suspicious of. Townies need to vote for players they think are scum. I still need to go back and catch up on the rest of Day One. I’ll likely be changing my vote then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=39)