# Genre Fiction Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387 "2011-05-19T01:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/781 "2011-06-03T09:46:52Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Sorry I haven’t posted in a bit–thought Nights were Fluff-Only, and then I got caught up in an archive binge. > > I don’t find the cases on either gnarlycharlie or Astral Rejection convincing, but (and correct me if I’m wrong) it’s not an either-or thing. > > I’m voting for > **Vote: Pleonast** > again. His actions look more scummy now than they did before what with fubbleskag flipping town. Which actions? Why? If you think he’s scummy, you want lots of us to vote for him. So give us good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/782 "2011-06-03T11:21:34Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > Thanks **Stanislaus** , it was a question that I had asked quite early on day 1, mainly for something to talk about but **Normal** wanted an answer as to why I had asked it. I think he was wondering why I brought it up first when in fact, I hadn’t. Not exactly. I got a bit of a feeling of cautiousness from you about Astral early on. Here’s your two posts from that early period: at this point Astral has already been caught forgetting his alignment, and has suspicion and a few votes on him stemming from that. > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > So, I am confused already, my usual state in these games. This is the first time I have played a closed game. I also thought that Raftdwelling Slumlords was a scummy sounding name, although I don’t think I would have forgotten it. > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > It just worries me that **Astral** could forget his alignment and is it possible that there is a third faction? Ok, to my answer my own question, it is possible but is it likely? I wondered if the second comment might have been a scummy you fishing for the likelihood of Astral himself being third party, to see whether you might be able to bandwagon a non-scum Astral for the reasons given, and still be “right”. I want to post your history on Astral and gnarly on day one in full; that’s up next when I get the chance. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/783 "2011-06-03T12:06:40Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > As do mine which matches the sample PMs that Red provided. I’m not sure sort of cutting and pasting would result in swapping the universe and alignment categories but barring half or so of the players claiming to match Astral, I’m going to take it as a sign that jiggery-pokery was occurring. > > **Vote Astral** I was reading through everything that Inner has posted because **Stanislaus** had intrigued me with his post. At the end of night one it has\*\* Inner\*\* voting for **Sister Coyote.** I can’t find an unvote for \*\*Astral \*\*or a vote for **SisC**. Am I just going mad or has the\*\* Mod\*\* just made a mistake and why hasn’t\*\* Inner\*\* pointed it out or have I made a mistake. If anyone can shed some light on this I would be very interested. OOG I haven’t been posting a lot cos I have bronchitis and I feel like death warmed up, well not even warmed up really /OOG ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/784 "2011-06-03T12:14:40Z")
> [@](#): > > I wondered if the second comment might have been a scummy you fishing for the likelihood of Astral himself being third party, to see whether you might be able to bandwagon a non-scum Astral for the reasons given, and still be “right”. > > I want to post your history on Astral and gnarly on day one in full; that’s up next when I get the chance. OH ok, fair enough I suppose, just note that I did unvote both although the way **gnarly** voted for himself, I should have kept my vote on him. You read more into my posts than I do, I hadn’t even thought of it like that. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/785 "2011-06-03T13:07:12Z")
**Silver Jane** , here is the Night post. I think maybe you were looking at a different one. **Inner Stickler** voted for **Astral** in [post 492](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13847683&postcount=492) > [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > So the assembled mass debated all day about who might be their enemy or who might not be their enemy. The transformation had befuddled some of their minds, but none could tell if the confusion was real or feigned. In the end a dangerous looking man was chosen to be the first to bleed at the steps, a gunslinger, but one saddened by a past of loss and regret. When they came for him, however, he would not go quietly. In a blur, he pulled out a blue steel revolver. “I am not the enemy you would seek!” he bellowed. He leveled the gun at his nearest assailant and pulled the trigger. _Click_ _Click_ and for once in his life the gun would not fire, and he knew he was dead. > > ========================================================== > Coin Flip (The coins will be flipped every night, regardless of if they were needed): 5 Tails. > > Final Vote Count: > > fubbleskag(7): nesta[523], Pleonast[530], Tom Scud[583], Special Ed[603], Silver Jan[623], Weedy[626], [del]Hirka T’Bawa[635-649][/del], TexCat[645] > Pleonast(6): Winston Smith[328], fluiddruid[356], Hirka T’Bawa[536-536][536-536][536-536][536-635][649], Normal Phase[540], pedescribe[546], fubbleskag[641] > Astral Rejection(4): [del]Tom Scud[136-236][/del], [del]Stanislaus[139-211][/del], [del]TexCat[141-645][/del], Mahaloth[154], [del]Zeriel[160-653][/del], [del]Normal Phase[207-237][/del], [del]Special Ed[245-507][/del], gnarlycharlie[324], [del]Silver Jan[327-428][/del], SisterCoyote[466], [del]fubbleskag[490-636][/del], Inner Stickler[492] > Zeriel(2): Stanislaus[560], MHaye[627] > gnarlycharlie(1): [del]Normal Phase[318-540][/del], Astral Rejection[569], [del]Silver Jan[581-615][/del] > Hirka T’Bawa(1): Zeriel[653] > Special Ed(0): [del]Astral Rejection[248-451][/del] > SisterCoyote(0): [del]Normal Phase[317-318][/del], [del]pedescribe[399-545][/del], [del]Weedy[407-626][/del], [del]Hirka T’Bawa[414-536][/del], [del]Astral Rejection[451-569][/del], [del]Pleonast[487-530][/del] > Mahaloth(0): [del]Hirka T’Bawa[398-414][/del] > Did Not Vote: > With these votes fubbleskag has been be lynched. > > Fubbleskag who was Roland Deschain and a member of the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords, is now dead. > > ======================================================= > > It is now Night 1. Day 2 will begin on Wednesday at 7:00 pm ET. I don’t know what to think today. I can’t see much in the voting patterns. The votes on **Astral** and **fubbleskag** all look reasonable to me, but I’m not sure what to look for. The votes on **Pleonast** are a different story, but I’m not sure what to make of them. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/786 "2011-06-03T13:08:28Z")
**Jan** , not Jane, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/787 "2011-06-03T13:35:48Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > OH ok, fair enough I suppose, just note that I did unvote both although the way **gnarly** voted for himself, I should have kept my vote on him. You read more into my posts than I do, I hadn’t even thought of it like that. Are you voting gnarly now? You unvotes are actually my biggest issue with your day one posts, the reasons for them, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/788 "2011-06-03T13:43:35Z")
Sorry guys, do not have the brain-cycles to spare from work to really dig into anything; will attempt to do another couple long posts on the weekend. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/789 "2011-06-03T13:52:53Z")
Responding to[this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13874342&postcount=782) (I butchered the quoting; Sorry) Normal Phase, I’m interested in seeing what you have to say about this, but I would ask that if you are going to make a case that is based on some time/post-sensitive (i.e. in context) that you include post numbers or links to the original post if possible. I think it will just make it easier for the rest of us to follow. [Quote=Silver Jan] Thanks Stanislaus, it was a question that I had asked quite early on day 1, mainly for something to talk about but Normal wanted an answer as to why I had asked it. I think he was wondering why I brought it up first when in fact, I hadn’t. [/quote] > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Not exactly. I got a bit of a feeling of cautiousness from you about Astral early on. Here’s your two posts from that early period: at this point Astral has already been caught forgetting his alignment, and has suspicion and a few votes on him stemming from that. [Quote=Silver Jan] So, I am confused already, my usual state in these games. This is the first time I have played a closed game. I also thought that Raftdwelling Slumlords was a scummy sounding name, although I don’t think I would have forgotten it. [/quote] [Quote=Silver Jan] It just worries me that Astral could forget his alignment and is it possible that there is a third faction? Ok, to my answer my own question, it is possible but is it likely? [/quote] [QUOTE=Normal Phase] I wondered if the second comment might have been a scummy you fishing for the likelihood of Astral himself being third party, to see whether you might be able to bandwagon a non-scum Astral for the reasons given, and still be “right”. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Normal Phase] I want to post your history on Astral and gnarly on day one in full; that’s up next when I get the chance. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/790 "2011-06-03T13:55:01Z")
I drafted the last post and this one as a single post, but it didn’t scan well so I cut it in two… In the mean-time I’m going to re-submit my vote for Pleonast. **Vote Pleonast** My reason for this vote is the same as yesterday: a [soft claim that I perceive as magic bagging](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13837203#post13837203), followed by a really, really lame response when challenged on it ([claim was for scum consumption, town should disregard the claim entirely](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13841638#post13841638)) Pleao said “Scum must decide if I’m telling the truth or not” but town must decide as well. I can see no pro-town reason for a claim of this sort, followed by the unreasoned responses and lack of responses. [Special Ed made some fairly pointed questions which Pleo basically blew off](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13845906#post13845906). Ed went about his own search to determine Pleo’s claim history but the [results seemed inconclusive](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13846081&postcount=448). Ed was [working out his analysis](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13847070&postcount=472) but unfortunately [isn’t here today to present the results](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13868743&postcount=714). ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/791 "2011-06-03T15:35:47Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > vote gnarlycharlie > for voting for a player they’re not suspicious of. Townies need to vote for players they think are scum. Decolored by me. I would apply the same logic to you, Pleonast. You’re chastizing gnarlycharlie for voting for himself telling him what townies need to do, but you didn’t actually make a case for gnarlycharlie being scum. Or, as far as I can see, even seem to believe that he is scum, unless you’re being intentionally unclear. Good for the goose, good for the gander, et cetera. **vote Pleonast** More or less the same rationale as yesterday (post 356), plus the above. I don’t like his claim, I don’t like being told to ignore what he said and I don’t like his lack of substantial commentary about this very serious issue. I’ll weigh in a finger of suspicion on Inner Stickler too, but to me the Pleonast issue is more pressing. I need a good explanation as to why the claim was made. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/792 "2011-06-03T15:44:18Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > I need a good explanation as to why the claim was made. He won’t give you one. Right now, I’m finding the case on Inner more compelling than the case on Pleo, though I do find Pleo’s vote on Charlie problematic. **Vote Inner Stickler** In other news, I’ve stretched myself a bit thin between this game, my Alice game (which may be coming to a close) and the May Mini on Giraffe, so sorry for my low levels of participation. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/793 "2011-06-03T16:42:22Z")
> [@SisterCoyote](#): > > He won’t give you one. > > Right now, I’m finding the case on Inner more compelling than the case on Pleo, though I do find Pleo’s vote on Charlie problematic. > > **Vote Inner Stickler** > > In other news, I’ve stretched myself a bit thin between this game, my Alice game (which may be coming to a close) and the May Mini on Giraffe, so sorry for my low levels of participation. You come out of lurking with this? What? Pleo makes a half-assed claim, won’t back it up, justify it or explain himself, and you _pop in_ and give him a free pass? Oh, and you find a more compelling case on Inner Stickler? What case? Also, you’re telling us you’re just lurking because you’re busy playing other games? Is this some kind of joke? ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/794 "2011-06-03T16:47:57Z")
Pleo _always_ makes half-assed claims, and never backs it up, justifies it, or explains himself. I’m not giving him a free pass, I’m saying that overall I find _that_ to be a null tell. And no, I’m not just lurking because I’m playing other games. I’m just lurking because between my 40-hr work week, the game I’m moderating, and classes I’m stretched a little thin at the moment and haven’t been able to give this game as much attention as I’d usually like. Specifically, I am referring to **stanislaus** ’ case on IS, and my own quick perusal of IS’s posts which seem to back that case up; Inner seems to be hiding in plain sight and I find that problematic behavior at best. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/795 "2011-06-03T16:49:25Z")
SisC, are you talking about the Stanislaus case on Inner? ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/796 "2011-06-03T16:50:39Z")
Sorry, should have previewed. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/797 "2011-06-03T18:06:51Z")
@ Weedy, thanks, I was reading the entire vote count thing wrong, my mistake (sorry no wine to blame on this one lol) If anyone wants to ask how I was reading it, I can explain but it will take a longer post :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/798 "2011-06-03T18:47:38Z")
I’m going back over final votes on known townies, in the hopes of finding a scum motivation. So far, that’s the seven votes on **fubbleskag**. **nesta** , [523](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13849268&postcount=523): presents a pro-town case on **fub** , which is something we want to encourage. **Pleonast** , [530](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13850435&postcount=530): simple, follow-on vote. Judge for yourself. **Tom Scud** , [583](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13854124&postcount=583): vote for same reason as **nesta**. **special ed** , [603](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13855470&postcount=603): another follow-on vote. **Silver Jan** , [624](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13858704&postcount=624): slight variation from others, voting because of **Astral** ’s strong defense. **Weedy** , [626](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13858945&postcount=626): yet another follow-on vote. **TexCat** , [645](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13860166&postcount=645): slight variation; because of moderator clarification, the pm order is not a determining factor. In summary: not much information to be gained from these votes. I expect one or two of these voters is scum, simply because it’s easy to make a “me-too” vote when several townies already have. But I don’t see any way to differentiate among the votes at this point. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > [@Mahaloth](#): > > It’s either Astral or Gnarlly for me. Honestly, I lean toward gnarly at this point. All the same as yesterDay. In the interest of being explicit, can you restate or summarize your reasons for your vote? > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > @ Astral – Who did you send in orders on, or what is your reasoning for not revealing that? Why are you asking that? > [@Stanislaus](#): > > No he hasn’t. Or rather, with the claim of a roleblocker, the only way we had to test his claim has vanished. What opportunities do we have to catch him out, if he’s always reporting a block? My plan is to lynch **Astral** on Day Four unless they’ve reported a scum. Other information by then might change the plan, like a dead scum blocker or a revealed investigator. > [@Stanislaus](#): > > By way of bringing something new to the party, a quick look at TexCat’s votes yesterDay: I’m not going to change my vote because of it, but this is a good case you make. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > I’ll buy that he might have changed his wording according to your perception, but I continue to think your own argument is essentially semantic. While I agree with you that **Mahaloth** ’s argument is not convincing at all, there’s nothing wrong with an argument being semantic. Scum look at the game from a different perspective and sometimes lie. That means semantics can be important. > [@Stanislaus](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > Sorry, I should have been more explicit. “Townies need to vote for players they think are scum” is the contrapositive of “players not voting for who they think are scum are not town”. So yes, I think **charlie** is likely scum because of their vote. > > No, it’s not. “Townies need to vote for players they think are scum” is a statement about good gameplay - about how things should be. “Players not voting for whom they think are scum are not town” is in the form of a hard and fast rule - a statement about the way things are. You can’t get from an ought to an is. You are misinterpreting me. I am not stating a hard and fast rule. Note my conclusion: “I think **charlie** is likely scum” (emphasis added). Also note that I am not voting for **gnarlycharlie** because they are not voting for scum. I am voting for them because they are voting for a player they do not think is scum. **charlie** has not expressed any reason for why they think their vote is on scum. That is why my vote. > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Possibly was killed to remove said pressure; possibly was killed because scum thought he might be a forensic scientist (per night speculation); possibly just killed because hey it’s ed, he’s a good player. > > His examination of Pleo’s past claims was unfinished. While **ed** might have been killed because of their unfinished examination of me, I think I know why. And since this could have important ramifications, I’m going to describe it. > [@special\_ed](#): > > > [@Mahaloth](#): > > > > Oh, and my role pm goes in the same order as Sister’s claim. > > enough of this, please and > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > > [@special\_ed](#): > > > > enough of this, please > > Heh. I think vanilla town players all got the same ordering in their role pm. I suspect other players got a variety of orderings. I suggest our town power roles consider this information. > [@Winston\_Smith](#): > > In the mean-time I’m going to re-submit my vote for Pleonast. > **Vote Pleonast** > > My reason for this vote is the same as yesterday: a [soft claim that I perceive as magic bagging](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13837203#post13837203), followed by a really, really lame response when challenged on it ([claim was for scum consumption, town should disregard the claim entirely](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13841638#post13841638)) > > Pleao said “Scum must decide if I’m telling the truth or not” but town must decide as well. I can see no pro-town reason for a claim of this sort, followed by the unreasoned responses and lack of responses. > > [Special Ed made some fairly pointed questions which Pleo basically blew off](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13845906#post13845906). Ed went about his own search to determine Pleo’s claim history but the [results seemed inconclusive](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13846081&postcount=448). > > Ed was [working out his analysis](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13847070&postcount=472) but unfortunately [isn’t here today to present the results](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13868743&postcount=714). And just to be explicit, you think all that means I’m likely to be scum? > [@fluiddruid](#): > > I would apply the same logic to you, Pleonast. You’re chastizing gnarlycharlie for voting for himself telling him what townies need to do, but you didn’t actually make a case for gnarlycharlie being scum. Or, as far as I can see, even seem to believe that he is scum, unless you’re being intentionally unclear. Good for the goose, good for the gander, et cetera. Sorry for being unclear, I hope my responses to **Stanislaus** clarify it. > [@](#): > > **vote Pleonast** > More or less the same rationale as yesterday (post 356), plus the above. I don’t like his claim, I don’t like being told to ignore what he said and I don’t like his lack of substantial commentary about this very serious issue. > > I’ll weigh in a finger of suspicion on Inner Stickler too, but to me the Pleonast issue is more pressing. I need a good explanation as to why the claim was made. And again, to be explicit, you think all that means I’m likely to be scum? ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/799 "2011-06-03T18:59:34Z")
Yes, Pleonast, to be explicit, I think you are scum and that is why I’m voting for you. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/800 "2011-06-03T19:06:14Z")
> [@Winston\_Smith](#): > > Yes, Pleonast, to be explicit, I think you are scum and that is why I’m voting for you. That does not address the question I asked: do you think I’m scum because of the reasons you stated previously? This might seem pedantic, but players need to be clear about why they think someone is scum. It helps townies to evaluate motivations. So far, you’ve stated reasons for voting for me. And you’ve stated you think I’m scum. Now, please, connect the two. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=41)