# Genre Fiction Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387 "2011-05-19T01:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/841 "2011-06-06T03:14:06Z")
I hate having ongoing computer issues. Alright, a summary of the actions I’ve found to be anti-town so far, in no particular order: 1. **Hirka** ’s tying of the game yesterDay. Ties are not good for town. With the tiebreaker mechanics as they are, we have a fairly large chance of a no-lynch. No-lynches do not give us information, which is sorely needed especially now that we know that the death reveals do not give us full information. 2. **Pleonast** ’s magic bag. Magic bags are generally bad–they influence town voting, as they amount to a soft non-vanilla claim. They may or may not influence scum actions enough to counteract the muddying of the waters. As an aside: They are especially bad in this game, since we don’t even get the benefit of knowing what you were hinting at when you die. You cannot be faulted for this, though, as we didn’t know that’d be the rule at game start. 3. **gnarlycharlie** ’s self-vote. Not only is it useless, it smacks of the patented **Idle Thoughts** gratuitous martyr complex defense. (“I’m SO townie, you guys are going to be SO sorry when you kill me, etc”. The “I’m too histrionic to be scum” defense. :D). 4. **SilverJan** ’s marvelous ability to have made 44 posts to this thread without making much of a coherent contribution regarding anything. Seriously, every time I try to re-read your stuff I go all cross-eyed. 5. **Astral** ’s suggestion that the lack of a counterclaim proves anything. Closed game means you can assume NOTHING about roles. This horse is so dead, and has been beaten so often, its is now officially paste. In the absence of anything else, the most palpable tell on there (that is, the one that was an action, and not mere words) is the one that will get my vote. **vote hirka** ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/842 "2011-06-06T04:09:01Z")
I’m keeping my vote on gnarly for now, but I did want to comment on nesta and Texcat. I may switch my vote, I need to think on them for a while. First, nesta. The first in-game post by nesta, after excluding my quotes, looks like this: > [@nesta](#): > > This is what’s bugging me. Astral paid enough attention to the win condition to note the “double hammer” correction, but somehow not enough attention to realize what team he was on? Even after comparing his PM to that in post 1 to agree with Ed that they didn’t match? Something doesn’t add up. > > This post also strikes me as having too much information: My posts have been bugging him. He asks two hypothetical questions, and then concludes that something doesn’t add up. He then points to another of my posts, and states that I am indicating I have more information than I should have. His next post is also directed at me. Here it is: > [@nesta](#): > > **Astral** , were you able to investigate during Night 0? I’m assuming your answer will be “no” or you would have already brought it up, but I’m asking because the powers in your PM says: He assumes my answer is no, or I would have already brought it up. In fact, I had asked Red, but didn’t think to comment on that, since my question for Red was intended as a joke. I didn’t believe it was actually valuable information. Once nesta asked, however, I realized I should share with the class. What’s bugging me about this is that nesta specifically says he assumes my answer is no. His stated reason: I would have already brought it up. However, the next time nesta brings it up, he seems noncommittal about it. > [@nesta](#): > > That seems very general. If the quote is legitimate it would seem to indicate that there were no actions at all. > > Any reason you didn’t share this when you posted the other PM conversation with Red? > > [BTW, is there an easy way to preserve nested quotes?] nesta will mention it once more, here: > [@nesta](#): > > I seem to recall that many of the earlier games on this site had actions during night 0. This unfortunately led to the more experienced players waking up dead and not being able to play at all, which is probably why it’s less common now. > > I’m still trying to get a handle on how the game has evolved since I took a hiatus a few years ago. Many of the same players around, but a different play style than I’m used to. And there, he isn’t even talking directly about me. I have more info than I should. I’m confused about my team’s name. I didn’t reveal what Red said until asked, even though nesta specifically asked, presumably to see my reaction to the question. He clearly states he believes my story isn’t adding up. And yet, nesta doesn’t vote for me. Not even for a little bit. Instead, nesta jumps on fubbles. His reasons for voting for fubbles aren’t bad… with a notable exception. > [@nesta](#): > > > [@fubbleskag](#): > > > > Thanks for this, Ed - truly eye-opening. > > > > Vote Astral > > [color removed] > > After ed quotes both claim PMs fubbleskag quickly votes for Astral. For someone so strongly defending Astral before this is a quick turnaround. That’s not fair. While I know my PM is legit, and it’s just the way Red Skeezix wrote it, _fubbles couldn’t know it at the time._ Ed’s side-by-side comparison of our PMs would seem a bit fishy. I have no idea what nesta is attempting to say here. He’s trying to imply that fubbles pulled a 180 for no reason whatsoever, and that is clearly not the case. Fubbles had a reason, even if nesta doesn’t agree with it. He had an okay (if ultimately wrong) Day 1 case on fubbles, and he throws in that mistake at the end. Also, he concludes with this: > [@nesta](#): > > I can’t tell what he really knows about **Astral** , but somehow he just seems a little too sure. The obvious conclusion is that we’re scum buddies, based on what he’s said up above. Why else would fubbles be defending me so ardently? Why risk his neck for me? Why does nesta not make this connection at the end of his post? In fact, why does nesta have nothing whatsoever to say about his views of MY scumminess? Why does he make no effort to connect us? I have a theory, and I’ll admit it’s pretty tenuous. I’d suggest that nesta, being scum, knows I’m being truthful about my claim of cop. nesta does not want to be attached to a lynching of a cop. nesta questions me, implies I’m scum, but does not vote for me. nesta also knows fubbles is town, but without a claim assumes it’s safer to drive a lynch on fubbles than me. Later, nesta finally does connect me and fubbles. > [@nesta](#): > > You posted that for a reason, and all I can think of is that you either wanted to diffuse suspicion on your fellow scum, or you immediately believed his claim because you know he’s not scum and wanted to be on the record. I think the former more likely, but whatever **Astral’s** alignment I find this strong defense scummy. nesta believes the former is more likely. I’m scum, and fubbles’ defense of me has marked him as scum, too. Again… why did nesta fail to vote for me before? One possible explanation is given in that same post: > [@nesta](#): > > You both being scum is one possibility I find likely. I find you both scummy, but I’ve been wrong on Day 1 before, so I don’t think lynching **Astral** Today is a good idea. Regardless of **Astral’s** alignment your quick defense and then vote indicate that you know what it is. I’ve been wrong on Day 1 before, so I’m not gonna lynch Astral. Instead, I’ll lynch you. Does this make sense to anyone else? nesta doesn’t point to my claim, or my defense posts, or anything else. Just that nesta has been wrong in the past, so he won’t vote for me. Instead, he’ll vote for someone else. This makes no sense. And now, let’s move on to Day 2. Only two posts to dig through, so let’s wade on in. > [@nesta](#): > > I agree that it’s important to look back through **ed’s** posts, but we have to be careful about assigning any motivation to why he was killed – it’s wifom all the way down. His suspicions, on the other hand, we now know were legitimate. Fair enough. Still worth the attempt, I’d say, but being careful when making assumptions is fine advice. > [@nesta](#): > > **gnarlycharlie** , voting for yourself is a distraction. You say you are doing it because you are disappointed in people’s reasoning in voting for you. Either it’s a manipulative “pity me” scum play, or you are really town and that frustrated. Either way it’s anti-town. > > –snipped– > > Why are you so adamant that you won’t unvote yourself Today? What if you find someone you are convinced is scum? Also fine enough, it’s similar to what I said to gnarly. And that’s it. No vote for me, as his Day 1 suspicions should lead him. No explanation of why I’m no longer suspicious. No case building on anyone else, despite obviously setting himself up for a gnarly vote toDay as shown here: > [@nesta](#): > > In case you flip Town? If **Astral** is town he wouldn’t need to leave wiggle room. If he’s scum he would probably know how you’re going to flip. What exactly are you accusing him of here? Two comments on gnarly, with no vote. Plenty of discussion on me, with no vote. 19 posts, with a very high fluff-to-content ratio. Texcat next, but I have to leave to play some late-night tennis. When I come back, I’ll tackle TexCat’s 9 posts. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/843 "2011-06-06T05:32:16Z")
I was tackling TexCat next because he is one of our primary lurkers. However, after two read-throughs of his posts, I have no substantial issues with what he’s posted. It strikes me as pro-town, what little of it there is. Tex, do you have any comments on toDay’s votes, cases, and posts? Gnarly is our current vote leader - what are your feelings on him? Hirka and Pleonast are our next two, tied for second. What are your feelings on them? Do you have a reading on anybody not currently in danger of being lynched? ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/844 "2011-06-06T06:41:53Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > I thought I was clear. > > Obviously before Astral claimed I was pressing him hard based on what appeared to be mistakes made by a possible Scum. > > After he claimed, I voted for him because his claim didn’t make sense. > > 1. He didn’t immediately post his role PM > 2. He didn’t immediately post his PM conversations with the moderator > 3. He was adamant about there being no counter-claim. A Scum would want to at least out the Detective if they are going down. > 4. He knew, from his PM, that he could find the ALE member. > 5. Even after having a conversation about red regarding his PM, he forgot he was CARS. > > but most damning of all… > > 1. He posted earlier that he thought that the 3rd parties were all part of the ALE, and yet, his PM very clearly states that he can detect ALE members, so why would he think he could detect only Scum and not 3rd party? I still think that Ed’s case here makes a lot of sense, particularly his #6. I think Astral’s claim of weak cop was invented. It doesn’t seem to hang together with his earlier statements. I don’t like the fact that he claims to have asked one question of Red, “This sounds like “regular” cop. What are the limitations?” and claims “That’s my discussion with Red.” I even asked: > [@TexCat](#): > > And no follow-up questions? I certainly would have followed up with: Is there a difference between their alignment and whether they are on the scum team? and Astral responds only with > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Sorry I didn’t ask any questions Red was unlikely to answer. It’s much later when he suddenly remembers that he did ask Red at least one other question, > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Believe it or not, I did actually ask Red if I could. > Quote: > Originally Posted by Red Skeezix > Quote: > Originally Posted by Astral Rejection > Hey, since it’s night, can I investigate someone? Eh? Eh? > > Sorry, no actions night 0 This looks to me like Astral suddenly saw a way to make his claim look a little more legitimate and took it. But why wouldn’t he have posted this earlier if this second interaction actually took place? When I asked about follow-up questions, why didn’t he respond with, No, my only other question was sort of a joke about investigating on night 0. Is this because he didn’t remember asking another question until someone mentioned night 0? I don’t think so. If he asked 2 questions, how hard would it be to forget the second one, and why not mention it? I think he didn’t think to make his claim look more legitimate until someone mention night 0. I also don’t like Astral’s begging for a counter-claim, and I don’t like the way he fished for Sister C to claim. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > For self-preservation reasons and the cases leveled against her by others, I’d like to **Unvote Special Ed** and **vote Sister Coyote.** > > While at this point none of you can believe me, it’s for the best for town. Since I’m cop, and Sister Coyote has no claim so far, we’re much better off lynching her than me. This smells to me like a scum who is going down and is trying to do his best to help his team on the way. \*\*Vote: Astral \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/845 "2011-06-06T06:43:48Z")
Tex, do you have any comments on toDay’s votes, cases, and posts? Gnarly is our current vote leader - what are your feelings on him? Hirka and Pleonast are our next two, tied for second. What are your feelings on them? Do you have a reading on anybody not currently in danger of being lynched? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/846 "2011-06-06T07:17:42Z")
I would, while I’m still up, like to dispute a few of your points. > [@](#): > > 1. He didn’t immediately post his role PM I posted it two minutes after claiming. Roughly the time to open my messages, copy it, and paste it. > [@](#): > > 1. He didn’t immediately post his PM conversations with the moderator When asked by Ed, I posted them exactly 5 minutes later. Roughly the time to open the thread, read up to that point, and copy and paste Red’s PM. > [@](#): > > 1. He was adamant about there being no counter-claim. I was arguing it as a reason to leave me alive for now. If there was another cop, he could counterclaim me Day 3 or 4 or whenever he damn well felt like. I don’t feel like hunting it down, but I’m fairly certain I explicitly say this somewhere. > [@](#): > > It’s much later when he suddenly remembers that he did ask Red at least one other question, No. It’s much later, after someone directly asks me, that I share my **joke with the moderator** from _before the game started._ Yup. That joke predates the opening color. I sent that message 3 hours after I made[this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13829287&postcount=88), a full day before the game will start. > [@](#): > > When I asked about follow-up questions, why didn’t he respond with, No, my only other question was sort of a joke about investigating on night 0. You can’t have this both ways. ‘Follow-up questions’ referred specifically to you questioning me about my PM with Red about the “weak” part of my role. A joke I made two days prior about an unrelated subject does not count as a “follow-up question.” > [@](#): > > This looks to me like Astral suddenly saw a way to make his claim look a little more legitimate and took it. But why wouldn’t he have posted this earlier if this second interaction actually took place? If I’m scum, why did I speak up at all? Surely you don’t think I was _totally unaware_ offering up additional information would look slightly suspicious? I could have just said “no” like nesta expected if I cared more about my survival than being honest with the town. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/847 "2011-06-06T09:16:53Z")
Sorry for making you cross eyed **Zeriel** I will try and explain my thoughts more clearly in future. These are the posts that have made me suspicious of **Inner Stickler** All the quote below are from **Inner Stickler** > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Oh, I could have told you when you first started explaining. Your only hope is to have a kickass role that town would not want to lynch automatically. > > Normal, I don’t know what I think. At the beginning of the day, I was willing to chalk it up to breezy townie not paying much attention because hey, he’s town. I do find some of the scenarios you and Ed have been making a little more believable than Astral’s explanation; however, I feel that he is adequately voted for and am more interested in looking to see if I can call out other scummy behavior. Underlining mine > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Meh, you did the heavy lifting. I didn’t come in until the second day and people always tend to forget about the previous day. I mostly just Didn’t Talk About or To Pleo. > As far as this game goes, if Astral is scum then I’m suspicious of gnarlycharlie who looks like he’s trying to play the distancing game but if Astral is town than I don’t know. I tend to think pretty hard about who I vote for and I don’t tend to change easily. It’s a bad habit, I know. He mentions **Gnarly** in passing as being suspicious but only if **Astra** l is Scum. > [@](#): > > As do mine which matches the sample PMs that Red provided. I’m not sure sort of cutting and pasting would result in swapping the universe and alignment categories but barring half or so of the players claiming to match Astral, I’m going to take it as a sign that jiggery-pokery was occurring. > > Vote Astral Now on Day2 > [@](#): > > If he is a scum false-claiming cop, then a roleblocker is a handy excuse and it leads town off into chasing a possibly non-existent roleblocker so that they can use their cop. If he falsely claims a scum is town and then they die later on, he’s in a tough spot. If he claims a townie is town then he’s effectively a town cop. Not what scum want. > [@](#): > > That being said, I find myself rethinking my earlier position. I see more benefit in him staying alive a few Days than in lynching him today. What has made **Inner** change his mind about \*\*Astral \*\*while still having doubts about him? > [@](#): > > Oh, I forgot the staying alive part. If we lynch him and he’s CARS, that sucks, we lynched a cop. If we keep him alive and he’s CARS, then he can continue to provide input and possibly investigation results that would become more trustworthy if he dies later on. If we lynch him and he’s ALE, hurray! If we keep him alive and he’s ALE, then we have more opportunities to catch him out or catch other scum slipping up in reference to him. Basically, I agree with Pleonast from yesterday. He’s provided a way for us to test his claim, let’s do that and reconvene on Day 4ish while looking for other scummy people. So where is all this scum hunting? I hope I have made my suspicions a bit clearer now. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/848 "2011-06-06T11:55:07Z")
gnarlycharlie(6): Mahaloth[718], Hirka T’Bawa[723], Astral Rejection[725], Normal Phase[735], gnarlycharlie[740], Pleonast[760] Pleonast(3): pedescribe[775], Winston Smith[790], fluiddruid[791] Hirka T’Bawa(3): Weedy[833], Tom Scud[839], Zeriel[841] Astral Rejection(2): gnarlycharlie[719], TexCat[844] Inner Stickler(2): SisterCoyote[792], Silver Jan[837] TexCat(1): Stanislaus[751] Did Not Vote:Inner Stickler, nesta, MHaye With these votes gnarlycharlie would be lynched. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/849 "2011-06-06T13:48:53Z")
I’m going to \*\* vote Inner Stickler\*\* because of the case I made [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13870546&postcount=753)(essentially, when it comes to scum hunting he’s long on mouth and short on trousers). ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/850 "2011-06-06T14:26:06Z")
I am so freaking tired today. Jan on gnarly: > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I have played a few games with **gnarly** and he tends to be quiet at the beginning of day and then comes out with some very interesting observations later on. I must say that I have only seen him play as Town. So she starts off inclined to brush off the behavior that others have seen as suspicious. The next couple posts give the impression that she thinks he’s a “scummy townie” (doing it deliberately? That part I don’t get). > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > It looks like you are playing a Calvin game (meta gaming I know), not fun because although you won us the last game I have no idea what you want from anyone now. > > As I said before I is just a confused grey (would have said blonde but..) > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I don’t mind elaborating, Calvin played a scummy game even though he was town, he pushed players to the limit and even got me to nearly vote off a Mason. > He asked questions of players that you wouldn’t want to answer but he got people thinking, so I just wonder if Gnarly was taking notes. > > If you want to se Calvins game you just need to go to FB By the time of the next post Jan has unvoted Astral and has no vote on record. What does “SisC seems to be a bit iffy about everyone even mean?” Gnarly continues to have some suspicion on him; she wants to hear from him. > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I have no idea where to place my vote at the moment. I like the way\*\* Astral\*\* has come back at every question aimed at him. > > **Sister C** seems to be a bit iffy about everyone. > > I want to wait a bit before I place another vote, I want to see what\*\* gnarly\*\* has to say Votes gnarly for being “not quite right” and (sort of) lurking. The “I could be wrong” bit earns a “bah” from Special Ed that I think is richly deserved, though it makes a lot more sense as a scum tell if gnarly is town (or at least non-scum) than if he is scum. > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > Something is not quite right about\*\* gnarlycharlie’s\*\* posts. I don’t really know what it is but he voted for **Astral** when he was dared to and then hasn’t really said much more. > > Vote Gnarlycharlie > > I could be wrong about my vote but… > > He hasn’t really said anything about anyone else, except when he mentions that **Astral** and\*\* Mahaloth\*\* could be friends He seems more interested in arguing with **Astral**. As I said, I could be wrong but it just feels funny to me. She’s then challenged by gnarly on her vote, and just like with Astral (“weak vote”) her first instinct is to deflect, by saying she hadn’t planned on voting Gnarly, he just sort of forced her into it with his behavior. Note the comment to Ed, the justification of her vote on gnarly by reference to something he did after she placed her vote. Again this is just like with Astral: first deflect, then justify with something she didn’t mention the first time around (this time because she literally could not have; gnarly hadn’t replied to her yet, obviously). > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > Originally quoted by\*\* Gnarlycharlie\*\* > > @\*\* Gnarly\*\* I had not planned on voting for you at all. I wanted you to comment on ANYTHING and you you just avoided the question. Maybe I am comparing the games too much ☹ > > All you have done is avoid questions and get mad at people as far as I can see. I voted for you to get some sort of reaction and I didn’t get one!! > > @\*\* Ed\*\* you were right about me hemming and hawing, I wanted\*\* Gnarly\*\* to do some Scum hunting but after his reply to me I think my vote could be very well placed. So her vote on gnarlycharlie could be very well placed, but then in her very next post he’s not on her hit list anymore. (And she unvotes him.) (I have no idea what she’s talking about with the quote people/when I said lie stuff. I can’t find reference to anything like that directed at her.) > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I don’t often quote people I want to know what is said overall. When I said lie, it’s just cos I want to know more. At the moment SisC is there, and so is Pleo. To be honest Gnarly isn’t rearlly on my hit list. > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > Unvote Gnarly Her various responses to me today also rub me the wrong way, but I’m too out of it to try to put it in words. Something like a high level of watchfulness/awareness, but no real engagement with my arguments. **unvote** **vote: SilverJan** For emphasis, even if I ultimately switch back to gnarly. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/851 "2011-06-06T15:37:43Z")
@ Normal A Scummy Townie is the way someone on FB played. He was Town but he was also very abrasive and a lot of people got angry with him, I felt and still fee that **gnarly** was/is doing the same thing. I voted for **gnarly** because I wanted a response, which I have said already. He is no longer on my Hit List because I don’t _believe_ him to be scum, I really don’t know how to explain it better than that. If you hadn’t brought **gnarly** into this discussion, I would have left him alone for a bit to see what pans out. I haven’t had a lot of time this weekend to go into depth on SisC, I will get to it ASAP. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/852 "2011-06-06T16:57:00Z")
I just found out I’ll be working on a new project with very limited internet access. Expect much fewer posts from me. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/853 "2011-06-06T18:20:19Z")
Where the heck did everybody go? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/854 "2011-06-06T18:28:12Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Where the heck did everybody go? _haunts_ OOOOooooOOOOOOoooooOOOOOO! ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/855 "2011-06-06T18:29:16Z")
I could go for a conversation with a ghost right now. So, Ed, how YOU doin’? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/856 "2011-06-06T19:04:29Z")
Even the ghost doesn’t want to talk. I would add one thing to gnarlycharlie’s summation of the case against himself: > [@](#): > > 1. not voting Astral when i thought i found him suspicious > 2. making a snarky remark to his question why i didn’t vote for him > 3. voting for him after being told i should vote for who i think is suspicious > 4. ‘backtracking’ on my poking around (which i have actually replied to) > 5. not considering the other cases offered by other players That is, a lot of reference to and reliance on what people are “supposed to” do, as a means of defending himself. Some quotes from various posts of his: – since in these boards, people seem to adhere more to the vote early and often belief, i did just that. – if i saw the logic of those posts, i would definitely change my vote (vote often, right?). – i’m also following the vote early, vote often belief which seems to be followed more in these boards. – Astral was my vote yesterDay. wouldn’t it have seemed strange if i voted for someone else without any reason at all? – funny how people complained when players joined on a bandwagon in my other game. It’s scummy because that’s not how townies tend to defend themselves. “But I’m following the townie playbook, why are you voting me?” Who says that? On the other hand, it can be intensely aggravating when you’re mafia and a case blows up against you for what appears to be no good reason, and maybe that’s what’s going with gnarly here. And ha, I missed this before (gnarlycharlie in reference to Weedy): > [@](#): > > mostly saying? how do you define mostly? more than 50%? interesting. for someone who’s never played you seem to have some aggressiveness. i was pretty timid my first game. although you don’t really say anything about me, it says something about you. either you have an above average amount of confidence or you’re being coached. I’ve seen that “you’re being coached” thing five times. The first four were from scum, the last was from Meeko. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/857 "2011-06-06T19:36:25Z")
What if he’s being coached… by a _potato?_ ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/858 "2011-06-06T19:38:09Z")
The entire mafia universe might implode. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/859 "2011-06-06T19:50:37Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I hate having ongoing computer issues. > > Alright, a summary of the actions I’ve found to be anti-town so far, in no particular order: > > 1. **Hirka** ’s tying of the game yesterDay. Ties are not good for town. With the tiebreaker mechanics as they are, we have a fairly large chance of a no-lynch. No-lynches do not give us information, which is sorely needed especially now that we know that the death reveals do not give us full information. He didn’t actually create a tie, unless there’s a mistake in Red’s vote count. From post 654: > [@](#): > > fubbleskag(7): nesta[523], Pleonast[530], Tom Scud[583], Special Ed[603], Silver Jan[623], Weedy[626], Hirka T’B7aw[635-649], TexCat[645] > Pleonast(6): Winston Smith[328], fluiddruid[356], Hirka T’Bawa[536-536][536-536][536-536][536-635], Normal Phase[540], pedescribe[546], fubbleskag[641], Hirka T’Bawa[649] Why is this supposed to be so anti-town/scummy anyway? Even accepting that ties are in fact bad in this game, there were three hours left in the Day at the time of Hirka’s vote. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/860 "2011-06-06T20:03:44Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Um. This is a bad vote. > > **vote hirka** However, looking back at his late-Day-1 posts, I have a hard time reading his mad flopping from player to player as anything but a relatively new Townie. **unvote** which leaves me without a vote and with crap-all contribution so far Today. I sure hope Gnarly is scum and not a super-petulant Townie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=44)