# Genre Fiction Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387 "2011-05-19T01:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1021 "2011-06-13T15:23:24Z")
Sorry – I have an obligation to make sure the Alice game continues moving forward, but everything else went to hell this weekend between a bout of food poisoning and then some other meatspace stuff that took more time than I thought it was going to. TexCat’s response to Winston’s post and vote on Winston is really bothering me. I need to go back and re-read the whole game, but for now: **Vote: TexCat** ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1022 "2011-06-13T15:43:21Z")
Sorry, busy weekend, will be a busy week. I graduate next weekend, so this is the last weekend to hang out with all my friends, plus my wife is in town, and get REALLY REALLY drunk… > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > But Z did not vote **gnarly** ; he voted Hirka (twice) for “making a tie”, which > > (part the fourth) > > strikes me as a fairly scummy policy vote - “hey he acted in an anti-Town manner! How am I supposed to avoid lynching Townies if they keep acting anti-Town?” I agree with most of your case against **Zeriel** , it seems like he is focusing on a minor “policy” violation, instead of actually doing anything constructive. The “tie” I voted to put in place lasted all of one post, and it was still many hours till sunset. Is that really the best reason he can come up to vote for me? At least he could try making a case about something I’ve said, maybe my defense of Astral or something (though, that wouldn’t grab as much traction today as previous days). Instead, he latches onto one thing, and as you said, it seems like it’s a scummy policy vote. He is making what he thinks is a safe vote, so that no one will look at him in depth for his voting history. **Vote Zeriel** Well, I need to go to the dentist now, I hope to be able to check back by end of day.4 ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1023 "2011-06-13T15:54:13Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > **vote Zeriel** > > First of all, excessive concern with third parties is a scum tell; it lets them do normal Mafia-like play without having to pretend to investigate, which is easier than pretending. So…“excessive concern” is poking at someone for part of one day, day one at that? > [@](#): > > Part the third: a couple posts late-ish in the day, wrt **Gnarlycharlie** : > > But Z did not vote **gnarly** ; Amazingly, I can find someone’s defense entirely unconvincing while still not thinking they are scum. > [@](#): > > he voted Hirka (twice) for “making a tie”, which > > (part the fourth) > > strikes me as a fairly scummy policy vote - “hey he acted in an anti-Town manner! How am I supposed to avoid lynching Townies if they keep acting anti-Town?” Is it truly a policy vote when it’s still the single scummiest action I’ve seen thus far? This is how I hunt scum, and how I have successfully hunted scum in the past few games–I look for people who do things that are seemingly innocuous until you put them in the context of why a scum would do them. Considering how few people even noticed that he tied it up, I feel fully justified. Considering further that your votes have been for two townies, are you REALLY in a position to take issue with my hunting style being voting-record-based? :dubious: > [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > Instead, he latches onto one thing, and as you said, it seems like it’s a scummy policy vote. He is making what he thinks is a safe vote, so that no one will look at him in depth for his voting history. If I wanted to do that, I’d find nice plausible reasons to vote along with the majority in the middle of the voting order where I wouldn’t stand out like, say, **Tom Scud**. Say, that gives me an idea for the next place to look once you fry. I was planning on taking apart Silver Jan’s incoherence next but… > [@](#): > > **Vote Zeriel** Obvious OMGUS vote, ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1024 "2011-06-13T16:00:15Z")
So\*\* Sis C\*\* has voted for\*\* TexCat\*\* causing a tie BTW but there are still a few people who haven’t voted so I suppose it might not mean anything at this point. **Normal** is voting for **TexCat** for having a weak vote on **Winston**. **Astral** is the only person with a strong case against\*\* TexCat\*\*. I feel that **Astral** has a few good reasons for his vote but I still feel that **Inner** is scum. Of course they could both be scum ( **Inner** and **TexCat** ). I want to hear what\*\* Sis C \*\*has to say about **TexCat** apart from somethings bothering her. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1025 "2011-06-13T16:05:53Z")
@ Zeriel – did you say at the time that you thought gnarly was town? I don’t remember. @ Jan – I named three reasons for voting TexCat, not one. I do agree I’d like to hear more specifics from SisC. LOL @ “causing a tie BTW”, though. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1026 "2011-06-13T16:13:51Z")
@ Normal, sorry but I was looking at your post where you actually voted (post 1009). How many hours are there before Day ends? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1027 "2011-06-13T16:15:44Z")
In which I said this: > [@](#): > > because that vote on Winston Smith was indeed a poor one; the case the other day was decent; and she’s been a bit oddly quiet (only 12 posts so far). About four hours, I think, a little less. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1028 "2011-06-13T16:27:25Z")
Thanks, that makes about 10pm my time I will try and stay awake. > [@](#): > > because that vote on Winston Smith was indeed a poor one; the case the other day was decent; and she’s been a bit oddly quiet (only 12 posts so far). Ok, I see what you mean 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Smith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@Winston\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Smith)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1029 "2011-06-13T17:00:14Z")
**Vote TexCat** Reasons: unfounded vote based on (willful?) misinterpretation of partial information, and then going submarine instead of sticking around to back up your vote. I’m not linking to the posts in question because they’re all on this page, so it’s easier to just scroll up I think (# 1002, 1012 & 1014). ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1030 "2011-06-13T17:08:18Z")
I’ve had a crazy week. I was laid off last Monday(I’m a teacher), so I’ve been so stressed I can’t concentrate. Today, I was last minute called back, so I’m in a very good mood. Very stressful times for teachers. Anyway, I am going to re-read and do my very best to find someone to vote for, but forgive me if the vote is not great. I think I am mostly confirmed as Town by the occurrence last night, but I still want to vote as I think that is the townie thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1031 "2011-06-13T17:16:06Z")
Hirka is OMGUSing(that’s right, I made it a verb). I also think TexCat is playing a scummy game for the reasons others have listed. Between the two, though, I think Hirka get’s my vote for now. I will change my vote to break a tie if I need to, though. **Vote Hirka** ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1032 "2011-06-13T17:31:04Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > @ Zeriel – did you say at the time that you thought gnarly was town? I don’t remember. I had no position on gnarly as town or scum, I indicated in my clarification of my “that ship has sailed” post that I was commenting on the fact that gnarly’s petulant self-vote was entirely a null tell. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1033 "2011-06-13T17:33:00Z")
Ugh, another tie creation (from SisC, that’s what I get for not using preview), and it’s within 8 hours of the end of the day. Especially with the number of people not weighing in until the end of the game, this is asinine. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1034 "2011-06-13T17:34:47Z")
NETA: End of the Day, not end of the game. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1035 "2011-06-13T17:38:14Z")
All things being equal I’m not convinced of Pleo’s innocence but I don’t have a strong case for him at this point. Between the other contenders, **TexCat** is jumping out at me. The case on **Inner** I’m not totally understanding, but in any case **TexCat** seems to have posted today largely to point out the obvious, and seems to be hanging back. On top of that, his case on **Winston** is not particularly good and seems to be an elaborate framing of basically lynching a lurker. On a gut level it reminds me a lot of his play in the last game I played with him, where he was indeed scum. Good enough for me on short notice. \*\*unvote Pleonast vote TexCat\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1036 "2011-06-13T17:38:19Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Anyway, I am going to re-read and do my very best to find someone to vote for, but forgive me if the vote is not great. Forgiven. And for the record, I don’t think your vote is bad. I’m glad to hear things are working out better for you! Sister Jan has been added to my to-do list, Normal. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1037 "2011-06-13T17:39:40Z")
Silver. Silver Jan. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1038 "2011-06-13T17:59:22Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Less likely why? You leave the reasoning only half-stated. I think you are misreading me. I am saying “After reviewing the claims of N2 actions and results made early Today, my evaluation of the probability that Astral Rejection is a Slumlord has increased somewhat.” The reasoning for that conclusion is the two bullet points above the statement. > [@](#): > > It bothers me that you leave out one plausible way that a scummy Astral could have acted like that (what Tom and I discussed above), invent a largely implausible one, leave the reasoning unstated for the third (why is a mass redirection in the hands of ALE unlikely?), yet manage to come to the consensus “Astral is probably town” opinion regardless. It looks a little bit perfunctory. I didn’t say Astral is “probably Town.” I said that I considered him “less likely” to be an ALE drinker faking his claim. That is a statement of a _change in_ suspicion level. There is no indication of exactly where my suspicion level lies. I’m still in the “pay the claimant some rope and see whether they hang themselves” phase of enquiry. I agree that it’s implausible for the three named players to be in it together in a convoluted bid for Town cred. The more complex a scheme is the more likely a loose thread will unravel it. I mentioned it so that no one would accuse me of not considering it more than anything else. As for your discussion, it’s possible it went out one ear and straight in the other (to paraphrase my student radio jingle.) That’s what you get when half your concentration is given over to listening for your kid sister to pull up outside. I’ll reread after tea and hopefully with better concentration. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1039 "2011-06-13T18:44:16Z")
I really like Astral’s posts on texcat and I agree that his repeated attempts to spin Winston’s words to make him (Winston) look hypocritical smell real bad. **Vote texcat** I also made a countdown timer if anyone wants to know when Day ends. [We have 4 hours and 15 minutes left.](http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?msg=&month=6&day=13&year=2011&hour=19&min=00&sec=&p0=179) ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1040 "2011-06-13T18:51:33Z")
Oh dear, that’s 1am for me, I don’t think I will be able to stay up that late ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=53)