# Genre Fiction Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387 "2011-05-19T01:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 54
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1061 "2011-06-13T21:55:05Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > And it took some serious teeth-pulling to get you to even answer why you were ignoring me. (For the record, “I thought you were scum” isn’t a good reason to completely ignore a player.) > > Further, _ **do you think I’m scum today?** _ I’ve asked you, depending on how you group them, four sets of questions toDay. You steadfastly ignored every single one of them until I called you out on it repeatedly. > > Did you ignore them because toDay you think I’m scum? I guess you do, because you haven’t offered any other reason to be ignoring me. > > For the record, my four sets of questions are these: > > [spoiler]1. > 2. > > 1. > 2. > > [/spoiler] For the record, voting for a player does not equal completely ignoring them. And for the record, all of those 4 questions related to your questions yesterDay, which I chose not answer because I thought you were scum. Obviously you don’t think that’s a good enough reason. I do. I have answered #3 repeatedly now. And I think #4 is a fib. Obviously, I have not ignored everything you have said. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1062 "2011-06-13T22:00:19Z")
TexCat(6): Astral Rejection[1005], Normal Phase[1009], SisterCoyote[1021], Winston Smith[1029], fluiddruid[1035], Inner Stickler[1039] Inner Stickler(3): Silver Jan[978], Weedy[984], Stanislaus[1000] Zeriel(3): Tom Scud[1019], Hirka T’Bawa[1023], TexCat[1041] Hirka T’Bawa(2): Zeriel[1001], Mahaloth[1031] Astral Rejection(0): [del]Mahaloth[del][900-965][/del][/del], [del]Tom Scud[del][928-931][/del][/del] Silver Jan(0): [del]Normal Phase[del][905-1009][/del][/del] Pleonast(0): [del]fluiddruid[del][921-1035][/del][/del] Winston Smith(0): [del]TexCat[del][1003-1041][/del][/del] Did Not Vote:nesta, pedescribe, MHaye, Pleonast With these votes TexCat would be lynched. Day ends in 1 hour. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1063 "2011-06-13T22:15:32Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > \*\*SisterCoyote \*\*is also on my list for tying it up today. JFTR? I had no idea my vote would tie things up. I am _notorious_ (in my own mind, at least) for keeping poor vote count records and making vote count errors even when I’m a mod. Given this particular game’s mechanics, I can see why you feel the way you do, but in my case it’s not a scum tell, just a me tell. Astral’s case about TexCat not responding to his (her?) specific questions is the one that specifically swayed me; however, TexCat’s smudge\* regarding Astral “fishing” has solidified my opinion. \*Yes, I consider the question “what are you fishing for” to be a smudge; in other games and other places I play, accusing someone of “fishing” is accusing them of showing a scum-tell, despite the fact that catching someone “fishing” is usually Scum-on-Town or Town-on-Town – because Scum, while they need to out power roles, don’t need to “fish” for information. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1064 "2011-06-13T22:36:37Z")
SJ on IS Silver Jan posted a long analysis of Inner Stickler’s posts in [post=13901817]978[/post]. Was it a fair analysis? That is, is what she said a reasonable summary of Inner Stickler’s posting history? The list below is posts that I do not agree with. There are 44 in SJ’s list that I think are fairly summarised. My comments on individual posts are in italics. Post 128 answers Tom about another game _Not quite fair. TS asked a question arising from 122, so 128 is about this game._ Post 131 asks Astral to be more Specific about ALE and CARS and 3rd Party _Clarification of a statement made in this game is reasonable._ Post 135 tells Astral about there only being two factions that we know about. _Again reasonable commentary on this specific game._ Post 138 Inners PM and Astrals don’t match. _No, IS’s and Tom Scud’s_ do _match_. _229 contains IS’s statement that he’s going to hunt Mafia elsewhere._ Post 250 telling Astral that after a discussion with Red he would be able to identify all threats to town _The discussion referred to is the specific exchange of PMs that AR is claiming to have had with Red Skeezix. SJ implies it could be any old chat. Notable that it’s still on AR._ Post 420 Nod nod nod to Mahaloth _This feels wrong to me. It looks to me as if IS is trying to stir up something against Mahaloth here, which he passes off as fluff in 422._ Post 452 game mechanics again _Not to my eyes. The first sentence is IS giving his reaction to Pleo’s early claim; the second is another comment on nested quotes (ie fluff.)_ Post 462 Seems like he’s really after Astral and doesn’t believe his claim ( not the only one either) _IS is also in error about the difference between an alignment cop and Astral’s claim; the difference implies at least one third party player, whether winstealer or not._ _IS’s last post in D1? A vote for Astral. He’s made 16 posts since saying he’s going to look for Mafia somewhere other than AR, presents no case except against AR and votes for AR._ SJ Missed post [post=13863532]683[/post]. Commentary on implications of the lack of death reveal, and that if the player was a Slumlord any claimed role can be trusted. Post 685 more game mechanics Analysis of the consequences of a mechanic of this game, not mechanics in general. Post 734 telling Astral to read more games?? A good idea for us Newbies but not perhaps the best thing to say in game _IMO I’m not as worried about this. IS’s thesis is that power roles give themselves away over and over again, which I can certainly agree with._ On the basis of the posts up to and including 734 that Silver Jan covered, she and I differ in interpretation on 10. Most of these seem to be those where |I consider IS is focussing on the mechanics of this specific game; I consider discussions of specific mechanics for this game to be helpful in analysis because they help elucidate the framework we are operating under. That, however, is (I think) a reasonable difference of opinion. The biggest twinge I had on Silver Jan was that she stopped at an arbitrary place. IS made 10 more posts between 735 and 978 (I counted.) Why she stopped when she did appears to be a matter of tiredness (from another post I believe she’s in the Central European timezone, which is currently BST +1). As I read IS’s Day 1 posts though, I found myself agreeing with Stanisalus’s analysis of the paucity of IS’s Mafia hunting in players that are not Astral Rejection. Even after saying he’d look elsewhere, fully 25% of his posts in the last half of Day 1 were about Astral, and only once did he touch on any other player. That’s a lot of posts on Day 1 avoiding doing what he said he’d do, and he hasn’t really taken it up in Day 2. Also I didn’t like what looked like IS trying to tar Mahaloth wth the same brush that got pressure started on Gnarlycharlie. (I think.) **Vote Inner Stickler**. I’ll be carrying on reviewing the rest of IS’s posts; I’ve got this far. I might even finish before midnight (which is Dusk.) ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1065 "2011-06-13T22:41:32Z")
> [@SisterCoyote](#): > > JFTR? I had no idea my vote would tie things up. I am _notorious_ (in my own mind, at least) for keeping poor vote count records and making vote count errors even when I’m a mod. Given this particular game’s mechanics, I can see why you feel the way you do, but in my case it’s not a scum tell, just a me tell. > > Astral’s case about TexCat not responding to his (her?) specific questions is the one that specifically swayed me; however, TexCat’s smudge\* regarding Astral “fishing” has solidified my opinion. > > \*Yes, I consider the question “what are you fishing for” to be a smudge; in other games and other places I play, accusing someone of “fishing” is accusing them of showing a scum-tell, despite the fact that catching someone “fishing” is usually Scum-on-Town or Town-on-Town – because Scum, while they need to out power roles, don’t need to “fish” for information. Sister, I do not consider it smudging when I was voting for Astral. I thought he was scum period full stop. I voted for him. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1066 "2011-06-13T22:42:52Z")
I’m not talking about when you voted for him. I’m talking about when you refused to answer his questions by asking what he was fishing for. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1067 "2011-06-13T22:49:51Z")
> [@SisterCoyote](#): > > Astral’s case about TexCat not responding to his (her?) specific questions I’m a dude! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1068 "2011-06-13T22:50:09Z")
So you wouldn’t consider his continued requests for me to discuss my opinion about everyone on the leader board, and a request for my opinion for those not on the leader board to be fishing? Or you do think it’s fishing and just don’t like me calling it that? All of those questions he asked were originally while I was voting for him. I thought it was fishing and stand by that characterization. I thought it Astral was scummy right up until this moRning when he claimed his results on Mahaloth, which leaned me the other way. But if were still going to be alive tomorRow I might re-consider. In the meantime, **unvote vote: Sister Coyote** ---
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1069 "2011-06-13T22:52:33Z")
The points about TexCat ignoring questions and misrepresenting others seem solid to me. Some things about her claim post also seem off to me, especially this part: > [@TexCat](#): > > In most games where we would have death reveals, I probably would not claim here. But I think it beneficial for town to know that I am, She claims vanilla, but says she probably wouldn’t claim if not for lack of death reveal. I don’t find claiming itself suspicious under the circumstances, but the stated reason doesn’t seem logical to me. If anything it’s giving the scum more information than they would have otherwise. **Vote TexCat** ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1070 "2011-06-13T23:13:50Z")
Day 3 Vote Tally TexCat(7): Astral Rejection[1005], Normal Phase[1009], SisterCoyote[1021], Winston Smith[1029], fluiddruid[1035], Inner Stickler[1039], nesta[1069] Inner Stickler(4): Silver Jan[978], Weedy[984], Stanislaus[1000], MHaye[1064] Hirka T’Bawa(2): Zeriel[1001], Mahaloth[1031] Zeriel(2): Tom Scud[1019], Hirka T’Bawa[1023], [del]TexCat[del][1041-1069][/del][/del] SisterCoyote(1): TexCat[1068] Astral Rejection(0): [del]Mahaloth[del][900-965][/del][/del], [del]Tom Scud[del][928-931][/del][/del] Silver Jan(0): [del]Normal Phase[del][905-1009][/del][/del] Pleonast(0): [del]fluiddruid[del][921-1035][/del][/del] Winston Smith(0): [del]TexCat[del][1003-1041][/del][/del] Did Not Vote: pedescribe, Pleonast With these votes TexCat has been lynched. =============================================== Coin Flip: Tails, Heads, Heads, Heads, Tails. =============================================== The final moments of day 3: “You’re scum, you ancient bastard!” "When the need arises–and it does–you must be able too shoot your own dog. Don’t farm it out–that doesn’t make it nicer, it makes it worse. " “What the hell are you talking about?” “Never underestimate the power of human stupidity!” “Really now, you are on the brink here, why don’t you tell us something useful, like who the other ALEs are?” “A generation which ignores history has no past—and no future.” “Okay, that’s enough with the damn platitudes, you decrepit sneak!” And with a crack, someone in the crowd had pulled out a gun separated Lazurus Long’s reason from his accountibility. TexCat, AKA Lazurus Long, a Member of the Consolidated Alliance of Raftdwelling Slumlords is dead. It is now Night 3, Day 3 will begin on Wednesday June 15 at 7:00 pm. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1071 "2011-06-13T23:17:56Z")
Well bugger ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1072 "2011-06-13T23:32:12Z")
TexCat has illuminated two very important points, summarized here. > [@TexCat](#): > > I find it very odd that I am being accused of mis-representing things, when this post is just a load of bullshit. You asked a lot of questions of me when I was voting you. I have seen no questions today except for why I refused to answer your previous questions. I have not ignored Normal at all, in fact, I think I have provided way too much information. 1. If you have claimed vanilla you cannot (pretty much by definition, unless you were the target of a power that let you know who used it on you) possibly possess any information the scum are not already in possession of except the contents of your brain. 2. If you don’t divulge the contents of said brain to town (even if you wait for the last minute, like, say, right before dusk when you are the #1 candidate by a fair margin), they are worthless to us. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1073 "2011-06-13T23:48:59Z")
_headdesk_ ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1074 "2011-06-14T12:27:16Z")
Inner was on 3 votes by post 1000. TexCat was on 2 by 1009. TexCat went from 2 to 6 between posts 1021 and 1039: SisterCoyote, Winston, fluid, Inner. fluid’s looking town based on this morning. Winston was OMGUSing. SisterCoyote and Inner were me-tooing. SisterC specifically said that she’d do a re-read and her vote for TexCat was “for now”. Inner didn’t acknowledge any self-interest in the vote (going from 5-3 to 6-3 still helped him.) These two should be the main focus of suspicion toMorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1075 "2011-06-14T17:03:17Z")
Damn! Very frustrating that another Slumlord has gone ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1076 "2011-06-14T19:59:00Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > These two should be the main focus of suspicion toMorrow. You’re assuming Inner is scum, because otherwise why bother looking so closely at them. Why did you not add Inner to the people we should consider? What if Inner isn’t scum? Then their switch to TexCat is meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1077 "2011-06-14T20:35:30Z")
Personally, I find it fascinating that stanislaus is looking at Inner and I, when Inner’s pretty much my top candidate for posting a fair amount but not really _saying_ anything, and as others have pointed out, handwaving when called on it. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2011, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1078 "2011-06-15T08:19:06Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > > [@Stanislaus](#): > > > > These two should be the main focus of suspicion toMorrow. > > You’re assuming Inner is scum, because otherwise why bother looking so closely at them. Why did you not add Inner to the people we should consider?What if Inner isn’t scum? Then their switch to TexCat is meaningless. “These two” = Inner and SisterCoyote. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2011, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1079 "2011-06-15T08:20:30Z")
> [@SisterCoyote](#): > > Personally, I find it fascinating that stanislaus is looking at Inner and I, when Inner’s pretty much my top candidate for posting a fair amount but not really _saying_ anything, and as others have pointed out, handwaving when called on it. What’s so fascinating about it? ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1080 "2011-06-15T14:01:32Z")
Day One Vote Count: **fubbleskag(7)**: nesta[523], Pleonast[530], Tom Scud[583], Special Ed[603], Silver Jan[623], Weedy[626], [del]Hirka T’Bawa[635-649][/del], TexCat[645] **Pleonast(6):** Winston Smith[328], fluiddruid[356], Hirka T’Bawa[536-536][536-536][536-536][536-635][649], Normal Phase[540], pedescribe[546], fubbleskag[641] **Astral Rejection(4):** [del]Tom Scud[136-236][/del], [del]Stanislaus[139-211][/del], [del]TexCat[141-645][/del], Mahaloth[154], [del]Zeriel[160-653][/del], [del]Normal Phase[207-237][/del], [del]Special Ed[245-507][/del], gnarlycharlie[324], [del]Silver Jan[327-428][/del], SisterCoyote[466], [del]fubbleskag[490-636][/del], Inner Stickler[492] **Zeriel(2):** Stanislaus[560], MHaye[627] **gnarlycharlie(1):** [del]Normal Phase[318-540][/del], Astral Rejection[569], [del]Silver Jan[581-615][/del] **Hirka T’Bawa(1):** Zeriel[653] **Special Ed(0):** [del]Astral Rejection[248-451][/del] **SisterCoyote(0):** [del]Normal Phase[317-318][/del], [del]pedescribe[399-545][/del], [del]Weedy[407-626][/del], [del]Hirka T’Bawa[414-536][/del], [del]Astral Rejection[451-569][/del], [del]Pleonast[487-530][/del] \*\*Mahaloth(0): \*\*[del]Hirka T’Bawa[398-414][/del] Did Not Vote: Day 2 Vote Count: **gnarlycharlie(8)**: Mahaloth[718], Hirka T’Bawa[723], Astral Rejection[725], [del]Normal Phase[del][735-850][/del][/del], gnarlycharlie[740], Pleonast[760], Tom Scud[863], Inner Stickler[869], nesta[873] **Pleonast(4):** pedescribe[775], Winston Smith[790], fluiddruid[791], MHaye[877] \*\*Inner Stickler(3): \*\*SisterCoyote[792], Silver Jan[837], Stanislaus[849] **Hirka T’Bawa(2):** Weedy[833], [del]Tom Scud[del][839-860][/del][/del], Zeriel[841] \*\*Astral Rejection(1): \*\*[del]gnarlycharlie[del][719-740][/del][/del], TexCat[844] \*\*Silver Jan(1): \*\*Normal Phase[850] **TexCat(0):** [del]Stanislaus[del][751-849][/del][/del] Did Not Vote: [/QUOTE] Day 3 Vote Tally **TexCat** (7): Astral Rejection[1005], Normal Phase[1009], SisterCoyote[1021], Winston Smith[1029], fluiddruid[1035], Inner Stickler[1039], nesta[1069] **Inner Stickler** (4): Silver Jan[978], Weedy[984], Stanislaus[1000], MHaye[1064] **Hirka T’Bawa** (2): Zeriel[1001], Mahaloth[1031] **Zeriel** (2): Tom Scud[1019], Hirka T’Bawa[1023], [del]TexCat[del][1041-1069][/del][/del] **SisterCoyote** (1): TexCat[1068] **Astral Rejection** (0): [del]Mahaloth[del][900-965][/del][/del], [del]Tom Scud[del][928-931][/del][/del] **Silver Jan** (0): [del]Normal Phase[del][905-1009][/del][/del] **Pleonast** (0): [del]fluiddruid[del][921-1035][/del][/del] **Winston Smith** (0): [del]TexCat[del][1003-1041][/del][/del] **Did Not Vote** : pedescribe, Pleonast [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=53) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=55)