# Genre Fiction Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387 "2011-05-19T01:03:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 56
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1101 "2011-06-16T00:43:04Z")
Inner Stickler, can you demonstrate a roleblock separate from what Astral claims has been hitting him? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1102 "2011-06-16T00:50:20Z")
Well, I targeted Astral Night one, Sister Coyote Night 2 but it was redirected to Mahaloth and Mahaloth Night 3. I dunno if that’s what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1103 "2011-06-16T00:54:44Z")
Reasoning? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1104 "2011-06-16T01:01:12Z")
Astral is the only one who’s claimed any sort of cop role so every night I’ve been flipping a coin to see if I should choose him. (It’s very difficult for me to figure out whether it’s better to have a power role hang around if they can’t use their power or let them get NKed. Sister C claimed vanilla so either I was protecting a townie or wasting a role action without impeding anyone and Maha has been investigated town so if we lynch a godfather and he’s still around, that would be useful. I hate being the doc in normal games and being paranoid just makes it that much worse. The lack of role reveals means I don’t even get to know if I’m the only doc or if a full doc is already dead. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1105 "2011-06-16T01:02:53Z")
Regarding a mass claim: I’m honestly not sure how, in a closed game with a cop and doc already claimed, it can help town in any way. What’s your reasoning, **Astral**? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1106 "2011-06-16T01:03:02Z")
If Astral is town, then scum is roleblocking him. If someone else among the town has been roleblocked, then that would make you presumptive town as well, contingent on Astral’s own alignment. If Mahaloth is vanilla town, there is no proof of you doing anything other than perhaps roleblocking Astral. If Mahaloth has a power, then depending on his own feeling of the right thing to do, it’s possible he could “confirm” you as per the above. Regardless of what Mahaloth is or does, the roleblock aspect of your power could be proven, tonight – all it would take is an honest volunteer with a blockable power. Do you see what I’m getting at? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1107 "2011-06-16T01:05:03Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Maha has been investigated town so if we lynch a godfather and he’s still around, that would be useful. With no role reveals, how would we know we got a godfather? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1108 "2011-06-16T01:07:49Z")
Got interrupted, cross-post. Never mind, come to think of it. If Inner is being truthful, there’s no way he survives long absent intervention by other potentially confirmable town powers. There’s no need to risk Astral in order to try to get a handle on Inner. Why did you claim, though? Not everyone out here had you on top of their potential scum list. **vote: Silver Jan** ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1109 "2011-06-16T01:08:56Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > With no role reveals, how would we know we got a godfather? Well, there’s Tom, if you trust him. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1110 "2011-06-16T01:08:56Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Regarding a mass claim: I’m honestly not sure how, in a closed game with a cop and doc already claimed, it can help town in any way. What’s your reasoning, **Astral**? We’ve lost lots of town. We seem to be playing in a power-heavy game, with lots of people claiming a power. Scum would have to also claim a power (and explain what they’ve done with it) or claim vanilla. We can then assess each claim and perhaps find scum. Further, what do we lose? As far as I can tell, our heavy hitters have already claimed. Do you honestly not see ANY value in the idea? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1111 "2011-06-16T01:13:17Z")
I’d like to see Silver Jan claim. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1112 "2011-06-16T01:16:49Z")
So I think this is [The Corinthian](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corinthian_%28comics%29) who Pleo was; if he was honest in his claim to be a power role maybe he was some kind of watcher, or maybe a Miller, since the Corinthian is not a nice entity at all. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1113 "2011-06-16T01:16:51Z")
Plus there’s always the chance of a counter-claim. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1114 "2011-06-16T01:24:07Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > With no role reveals, how would we know we got a godfather? Because I forgot about that. > [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > Why did you claim, though? Not everyone out here had you on top of their potential scum list. Enough did that it seemed like a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1115 "2011-06-16T01:32:08Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > We’ve lost lots of town. We seem to be playing in a power-heavy game, with lots of people claiming a power. Scum would have to also claim a power (and explain what they’ve done with it) or claim vanilla. We can then assess each claim and perhaps find scum. > > Further, what do we lose? As far as I can tell, our heavy hitters have already claimed. Do you honestly not see ANY value in the idea? I see the glimmers of potential value, but my thoughts about the potential risks are as follows: I) It’s a closed game; we have no expectations of what’s actually out there. We could be fiendishly unlucky enough to have hit a lot of power roles early–it’s happened before. II) Red could have provided scum with cover identities/PMs/whatnot, making it trivial for them to hide. It’s happened before. III) Even without those theoretical fake PMs, the color for this game is sufficiently broad that scum would have a pretty high chance of making a valid random claim that didn’t overlap someone else–it’s not like Firefly or Lord of the Rings was. IV) We run the risk of revealing roles that are atypical but situationally useful to us–such as the mass-redirect to \*\*Mahaloth \*\*that apparently as a side-effect stopped the night kill on Night Two. V) We have indications that there are third parties in the game–primarily from your own claims regarding your role PM. A lot of issue confusion and scum hiding places are to be had in third-party claims. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1116 "2011-06-16T01:50:12Z")
I was all ready to vote for Inner Stickler again, especially after his/her vote for pedescribe, which seems particularly baseless (unless it means: pedescribe isn’t participating,so may as well get rid of him/her). But since s/he claimed, I’ll wait and see what everyone else makes of that. So Pleonast was town. Given that I felt the whole case against him was dodgy, I will look there for scum first. Astral, do you want me to respond to the things you said about me yesterday? I can give you all my reasoning for what I said and didn’t say if you think that will help. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1117 "2011-06-16T01:51:38Z")
Sure. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1118 "2011-06-16T01:53:32Z")
P.S. I have no opinion on a mass claim, one way or the other. I have no idea how it would affect things. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1119 "2011-06-16T02:28:29Z")
I was just mostly confused, and trying to understand what people were saying. I didn’t quite understand the case against you until special ed laid it out in nice numbered steps. But then Normal and Stanislaus thought you were more likely to be third party. I didn’t follow that at all, since why would a third party bring attention to he fact that there are third parties. So I was pondering that. Then you claimed, and most people backed off, except for Ed. I hink it was Pleonast who basically said “we can always vote for him later”, and that was what I decided as well, since I couldn’t work out if you were 3rd party or scum, or neither. Given that a lot of people were making cases and being coherent, I didn’t want to keep posting, ‘huh?’ and ‘wait, what?’ and ‘umm, I dunno’, so I didn’t say anything till I made up my mind, and by then everyone (most people) had moved on. The comment about being confused, well, I am, quite a lot, so far in this game. It looked easier from the outside. But I obviously need to stop saying so quite so much. I can see how it would be a convenient excuse for scum to float along and not say much, but I don’t think I’m doing that. I think I say quite a lot, and I try to make it relevant and purposeful. Up until the redirect on Mahaloth, I thought there was good chance you were scum but we could deal with you later. I was interested to see who you would investigate and what result you would claim to get even if you were scum. Now I think you are probably town. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387/1120 "2011-06-16T03:19:10Z")
**Unvote Inner Stickler** [quote=“Weedy, post:1116, topic:582387”] I was all ready to vote for Inner Stickler again, especially after his/her vote for pedescribe, which seems particularly baseless (unless it means: pedescribe isn’t participating,so may as well get rid of him/her). But since s/he claimed, I’ll wait and see what everyone else makes of that. [quote] Actually, in a game like this one, we _do_ need to get rid of the non-participants sooner rather than later; enough non-participant Town and Scum can win rather by default; and, hey – we nail a non-participant Scum and it’s that much better for Town. That said, I’m not ready to vote Pede yet. Also, I’m opposed to a mass claim, I don’t see that it gets Town anything (net) and it just provides a whoooole lot of yummy targets for Scum. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=55) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/genre-fiction-mafia/582387.md?page=57)