# Gentrification is bad **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 5, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935 "2018-01-05T18:34:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/221 "2018-05-03T18:35:20Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Two different meanings for “your own home”. One is simply “where you live” , and the other is a “house or apartment that you own” When someone says “people will be priced out of their own homes”, they aren’t generally talking about people being priced out of the house/apartment they own. Some people might not be able to afford higher taxes, but the issue really is that the 2 BR apartment in Bed-Stuy that used to rent for $1200 is now occupied by 4 people paying $800 each. I would think that saying “people will be priced out of their apartments” would be a more descriptive sentence, but whatever. So, in order to keep property values down, so that rents don’t increase to the point where people that live in the apartments can no longer afford to rent them, we should do X. Any idea what “X” is? ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/222 "2018-05-03T19:48:59Z")
> [@](#): > > So, in order to keep property values down, so that rents don’t increase to the point where people that live in the apartments can no longer afford to rent them, we should do X. Any idea what “X” is? One possibility is to limit rent increases from year to year for CURRENT residents. This protects lower income households who lived there because it was cheap back in the day, and don’t want to move out, but allows property owners to charge market rates to newcomers, who can afford it. The main disadvantage to this is that people cheat: renters will sublet their below market apts to newcomers, and landlords will skimp on maintainence to force lower rent residents out. Another disadvantage is that it discourages home developers from taking a chance on marginal neighborhoods, since their potential gains are limited. But maybe it’s better than doing nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/223 "2018-05-03T22:31:54Z")
X = Make it easier to build more housing. That might include quicker permitting, looser zoning, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/224 "2018-05-04T12:38:36Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > X = Make it easier to build more housing. That might include quicker permitting, looser zoning, etc. Is is hard now, due to onerous permitting processes or zoning regulations, to build more housing in areas that are targets for gentrification? ---
**Author:** ![Nadnerb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@Nadnerb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadnerb)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/225 "2018-05-05T16:28:14Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Because there’s lots of infrastructure already in place. Because that’s where modern workers want to live. Because it’s much greener to work in a city than out in the burbs where everyone has to drive. Because incubators work well, and it’s important to have other tech companies in close distance. Because it adds jobs where they are needed. Because it adds vitality to neighborhoods. Because it’s easier to attract workers. > Lots of things we call progress have negative consequences on old fashioned folks. I believe that there are things we can do to cushion the blow; the poor are the least prepared to deal with major disruption and it costs them more. My city is looking at a real estate transfer fee to help those impacted by rising prices. But change and constant revitalization is essential to a vibrant social fabric. If you think gentrification gives us a vibrant social fabric, then you are sorely mistaken. Just take a look at any gentrified neighborhood. The dominant residents are part of an elitist professional class, that’s almost exclusively white. Only a very small percentage of non-whites, if any at all, would be part of that cohort. If want a more vibrant social fabric, then go move to a less costly suburb. ---
**Author:** ![Nadnerb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@Nadnerb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadnerb)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/226 "2018-05-05T16:50:46Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > You’ve conveniently removed the middle period between your working class haven and hipster heaven when much of the area became a toilet that no one but the most unfortunate, poor, or drug-addled would stay in. Why did that happen? New tenants with no sense of civic responsibility who wouldn’t lift a finger to improve the area, or indeed, made it worse by indifference. > > I lived there until 1967. Thank god we left. My street became a nightmare of crime and drugs. By 1971 it was already a complete horror. But slowly it got better. Why? Because some brave souls took the risk to buy in and rehabilitate. Should the people that brought that area to its knees be allowed to benefit from this transformation? Hell no. I probably couldn’t afford to live there now. And I’m damn glad to see that change happen. The point you are failing to realize is that, a lot of the working class folks who lived in Brooklyn, actually lived in stable neighborhoods, that were also affordable. But when the gentrifiers took over they became super expensive neighborhoods dominated by elitist hipsters, and in order to live in those neighborhoods you have to have a super high income in order to break even there. A lot of former Brooklynites could be living in rural Pennsylvania or Connecticut by now because their native Brooklyn is no longer affordable. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/227 "2018-05-07T16:17:12Z")
> [@](#): > > If you think gentrification gives us a vibrant social fabric, then you are sorely mistaken. Just take a look at any gentrified neighborhood. The dominant residents are part of an elitist professional class, that’s almost exclusively white. Only a very small percentage of non-whites, if any at all, would be part of that cohort. If want a more vibrant social fabric, then go move to a less costly suburb. Can you point out a specific example of a gentrified neighborhood that is now almost exclusively white? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/228 "2018-05-07T16:36:36Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > If you think gentrification gives us a vibrant social fabric, then you are sorely mistaken. Just take a look at any gentrified neighborhood. The dominant residents are part of an elitist professional class, that’s almost exclusively white. Only a very small percentage of non-whites, if any at all, would be part of that cohort. If want a more vibrant social fabric, then go move to a less costly suburb. I’ll ask my Hispanic, Black, Indian, and White neighbors what they think about your ideas. Many may ask to subscribe to your newsletter. ---
**Author:** ![Nadnerb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@Nadnerb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadnerb)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/229 "2018-05-07T18:25:14Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > Can you point out a specific example of a gentrified neighborhood that is now almost exclusively white? Just take a look at what happened with some Philadelphia neighborhoods with this reference: > **[The surprising data about race and gentrification in Philly](https://billypenn.com/2016/05/19/the-surprising-data-about-race-and-gentrification-in-philly/)** > > Among the neighborhoods that gentrified : Graduate Hospital, Northern Liberties and East Passyunk. Not on the list: Point Breeze and Fishtown. And here’s what happened to a Washington, DC neighborhood: > **[‘Black branding’ — how a D.C. neighborhood was marketed to white millennials](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/black-branding--how-a-dc-neighborhood-was-marketed-to-white-millenials/2017/05/02/68b0ae06-2f47-11e7-9534-00e4656c22aa_story.html?utm_term=.382afe5730a9)** > > In-depth book about gentrification in D.C. warns of ongoing racial and class friction ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/230 "2018-05-07T18:46:40Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > Just take a look at what happened with some Philadelphia neighborhoods with this reference: > > [The surprising data about race and gentrification in Philly](https://billypenn.com/2016/05/19/the-surprising-data-about-race-and-gentrification-in-philly/) > > And here’s what happened to a Washington, DC neighborhood: > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/black-branding--how-a-dc-neighborhood-was-marketed-to-white-millenials/2017/05/02/68b0ae06-2f47-11e7-9534-00e4656c22aa\_story.html?utm\_term=.382afe5730a9](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/black-branding--how-a-dc-neighborhood-was-marketed-to-white-millenials/2017/05/02/68b0ae06-2f47-11e7-9534-00e4656c22aa_story.html?utm_term=.382afe5730a9) The article in the Washington Post is a good one. The comments are good as well. A lot of them sum up to “If I’m a young, white person who wants to live in DC, and can only afford to move to a traditionally black neighborhood, are you telling me I’m not allowed?” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/231 "2018-05-07T18:53:44Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > T"If I’m a young, white person who wants to live in DC, and can only afford to move to a traditionally black neighborhood, are you telling me I’m not allowed?" I would like the OP to answer this question - along with many other questions in this thread - with more than a link or a reference to previous links. ---
**Author:** ![Nadnerb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@Nadnerb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadnerb)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/232 "2018-05-07T18:59:15Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > The article in the Washington Post is a good one. The comments are good as well. A lot of them sum up to “If I’m a young, white person who wants to live in DC, and can only afford to move to a traditionally black neighborhood, are you telling me I’m not allowed?” Well look at it like this. The white person would be allowed initially, but once it’s allowed, it just might be ready to gentrify the neighborhood, and that person could care less if any blacks get priced out. When a neighborhood is gentrified, it is practically colonized. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/233 "2018-05-07T19:03:35Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > The white person would be allowed initially, but once it’s allowed, it just might be ready to gentrify the neighborhood, and that person could care less if any blacks get priced out. Who is deciding whether the white person is “allowed” or not “allowed” to move into a given area? Who decides which specific areas fall under the “no white people allowed” policy? And who, exactly, is enforcing the “allowed” bit? The city? The state? The federal government? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/234 "2018-05-07T20:53:55Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > Well look at it like this. The white person would be allowed initially, but once it’s allowed, it just might be ready to gentrify the neighborhood, and that person could care less if any blacks get priced out. When a neighborhood is gentrified, it is practically colonized. And how do you suggest we address this issue? Perhaps deed restrictions requiring the owners not to sell to anyone of the White race? ---
**Author:** ![Nadnerb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@Nadnerb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadnerb)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/235 "2018-05-07T20:55:42Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > And how do you suggest we address this issue? Perhaps deed restrictions requiring the owners not to sell to anyone of the White race? Read the article from the Washington Post. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/236 "2018-05-07T21:34:08Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > Read the article from the Washington Post. The only suggestion in the article is about fostering communication and mingling between the two populations. It says nothing about preventing Whites from moving in. I’m asking specifically about that - what do you propose to allow traditionally Black (or Latino or Asian) neighborhoods to exclude outsiders from buying housing? Or if you don’t support any programs like that, what do you propose? ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/237 "2018-05-07T21:53:05Z")
> [@](#): > > And here’s what happened to a Washington, DC neighborhood: > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/local](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local)…=.382afe5730a9 The Shaw neighborhood is now “30 percent black”. It doesn’t say, but it seems reasonable to think that there are some Latinos and Asians there, so it is hardly “predominantly white”. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/238 "2018-05-07T21:56:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Just take a look at what happened with some Philadelphia neighborhoods with this reference: > > [https://billypenn.com/2016/05/19/the...ion-in-philly/](https://billypenn.com/2016/05/19/the...ion-in-philly/) This article says that in Philadelphia, what you are describing basically does not happen. High income whites tend to move in to low-income white neighborhoods, not black neighborhoods. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/239 "2018-05-08T12:32:07Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > Read the article from the Washington Post. The article from the Washington Post has the ideas from \*\*Nadnerb \*\*on how to prevent gentrification or what to tell young, white people when they want to move into neighborhoods that they can afford? ---
**Author:** ![Nadnerb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@Nadnerb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadnerb)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/240 "2018-05-11T20:56:30Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > You actually have to ask this question? > > Many people in these neighborhoods only have homes or apartments because, by being in a financially depressed and generally undesirable area, the costs are significantly lower than they would otherwise be. > > Suddenly, Gentrification rears its ugly head. As affluent interests begin acquiring property and rebuilding, costs and taxes soar. The long time residents, many of whom cannot afford to live just about anywhere else, are priced out of their own homes. This is a proven fact because it’s happened over and over again. > > It’s yet another example of the many ways the rich and powerful exploit the poor. In other words, business as usual. Finally, a real argument on this thread. It’s a fact, that gentrification has negative consequences. And if you own a home in a gentrified neighborhood, you could get screwed as well. The property taxes could get jacked up, and it will reach the point where it’s no longer affordable for the old timers of the neighborhood. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935.md?page=13)