# Gentrification is bad **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 5, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935 "2018-01-05T18:34:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Nadnerb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@Nadnerb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadnerb)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/241 "2018-05-11T21:04:26Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > The article from the Washington Post has the ideas from \*\*Nadnerb \*\*on how to prevent gentrification or what to tell young, white people when they want to move into neighborhoods that they can afford? It’s more so if blacks stay, then they have to accept unfair compromises from white newcomers. A lot of the black owned businesses have closed, and have been replaced by white businesses. And the white newcomers get to dominate the Shaw neighborhood and not the blacks. And the neighborhood went from 70 percent black in 1970 to 30 percent black in 2010. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/242 "2018-05-12T00:11:25Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > Well look at it like this. The white person would be allowed initially, but once it’s allowed, it just might be ready to gentrify the neighborhood, and that person could care less if any blacks get priced out. When a neighborhood is gentrified, it is practically colonized. We have a word for that, and it ain’t “gentrification”. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/243 "2018-05-12T00:44:50Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > A lot of the black owned businesses have closed, and have been replaced by white businesses. What are “black businesses” and “white businesses”? Aren’t they just businesses? ---
**Author:** ![Nadnerb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@Nadnerb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadnerb)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/244 "2018-05-12T00:46:39Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > What are “black businesses” and “white businesses”? Aren’t they just businesses? The former is owned by blacks, and the latter is owned by whites. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/245 "2018-05-12T00:48:12Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > The former is owned by blacks, and the latter is owned by whites. They’re just businesses. What difference could it possibly make who owns them? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/246 "2018-05-12T04:26:17Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > Well look at it like this. The white person would be allowed initially, but once it’s allowed, it just might be ready to gentrify the neighborhood, and that person could care less if any blacks get priced out. When a neighborhood is gentrified, it is practically colonized. I think your definition of gentrification is kind of skewed. You’re conflating race and socioeconomic status and attributing a whole lot of racial baggage to something that’s almost exclusively an economic phenomenon. Look at it this way- if a bunch of black entrepreneurs or say… a city government came in and made a desperately poor neighborhood very attractive to middle class black people (but not to white people for whatever reason), that would do ALL the things that gentrification does- raise rents, drive out a lot of businesses that cater to the previous poor crowd, the ones who remain raise prices. As you can imagine, this would make life hard on the poor people who lived there before for all the same reasons. The only difference would be in the magnitude and in the race of the gentrifiers. And I don’t even know if the magnitude would really matter much, if the original residents were poor enough; a 10% increase in prices would be equally unsupportable as a 50% increase in that case. It doesn’t even have to be anything planned; let’s say (this is a hypothetical) that a really poor area gets really lucky and the planets align and the local schools end up with super-awesome principals, teachers and administrators, and the educational attainment of the area’s schools reaches par with the best suburban white schools. THAT alone will drive up rents, due to the people wanting to move their to have their children better educated, and being willing to pay. And with that extra money, comes the higher rent, the higher prices, and all the ills of gentrification. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2018, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/247 "2018-05-12T05:42:33Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > The former is owned by blacks, and the latter is owned by whites. So? Are you automatically equating “blacks” with “poor” and “whites” with “rich”? I would hope not. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/248 "2018-05-15T16:04:56Z")
> [@](#): > > So? Are you automatically equating “blacks” with “poor” and “whites” with “rich”? I would hope not. The OP seems unaware of the existence of middle class blacks or poor whites ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/249 "2018-05-15T18:06:40Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > This article says that in Philadelphia, what you are describing basically does not happen. High income whites tend to move in to low-income white neighborhoods, not black neighborhoods. Sure they do, it does depend on how NIMBY the zoning laws are. Seattle has a huge problem with displacement in general, but historically African American neighborhoods are severely impacted. > **[Changes in the Central District Affect the African-American Community](https://seattlemag.com/food-and-culture/changes-central-district-affect-african-american-community/)** > > When Mount Calvary Christian Center pastor Reggie Witherspoon was growing up in the Central District in the 1960s and ’70s, the neighborhood was tight-knit and largely African-American. But today, it’s… Mostly because that group of citizens tends to have less pull with the zoning board and city council. So their SFH neighborhoods get rezoned to multi-use or designated as urban villages when predominately white middle class neighborhoods (which were often sold with deeds that forbid non-white ownership) are protected as SFH areas. Gentrification is driven by profit motives and not building communities. ---
**Author:** ![Nadnerb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@Nadnerb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadnerb)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/250 "2018-05-19T23:16:00Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Sure they do, it does depend on how NIMBY the zoning laws are. > > Seattle has a huge problem with displacement in general, but historically African American neighborhoods are severely impacted. > > [Changes in the Central District Affect the African-American Community - Seattle magazine](http://www.seattlemag.com/article/changes-central-district-affect-african-american-community) > > Mostly because that group of citizens tends to have less pull with the zoning board and city council. So their SFH neighborhoods get rezoned to multi-use or designated as urban villages when predominately white middle class neighborhoods (which were often sold with deeds that forbid non-white ownership) are protected as SFH areas. > > Gentrification is driven by profit motives and not building communities. You sir have made a real argument. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/251 "2018-05-19T23:29:00Z")
> [@Nadnerb](#): > > You sir have made a real argument. I have a feeling you’d say the same thing to someone who just posted… > [@](#): > > white ppl r the WORST go 2 suburbz and stay losers cittites r 4 kewl ppl ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/252 "2018-05-22T10:45:31Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Mostly because that group of citizens tends to have less pull with the zoning board and city council. So their SFH neighborhoods get rezoned to multi-use or designated as urban villages when predominately white middle class neighborhoods (which were often sold with deeds that forbid non-white ownership) are protected as SFH areas. How the flying bologna sandwiches is the part in the parenthesis legal or enforceable? So long as it isn’t, it shouldn’t be relevant. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935/253 "2018-05-23T15:00:26Z")
The part in parenthesis is not legal or enforceable now, but it was once common, even in the northern parts of the country not usually associated with Jim Crow. The patterns created by these rules are part of the reason cities are still segregated. Although the issue here seems to be biased urban bureaucrats enforcing regulations unevenly, rather than greedy developers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gentrification-is-bad/805935.md?page=12)