# Geographic anomaly (any others like this?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 26, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413 "2019-12-26T19:42:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/41 "2019-12-27T18:56:10Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I _think_ that Kentucky Bend and Liberty Island are the only true state exclaves in the US. Tho I’d love to be proved wrong. [Ellis Island](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_v._New_York) is also a true enclave. > [@](#): > > Also, how many know that NY state and Rhode Island share a border? Just past Fisher’s island, you can sail or fly from NY state directly into RI . . . Yes, there’s quite a few places in the US where three states come together, but NY-RI-CT is the only one that’s in the ocean. There’s a couple of them in the middle of Lake Michigan, though. How many people know that Illinois and Michigan share a border? > [@](#): > > And I love that Illinois’ early capital, Kaskaskia, is WEST of the Mississippi river. > [@md2000](#): > > Apparently there are plenty of places along the Mississippi that are on the “wrong” side of the river, thanks to its propensity to wander since boundaries were drawn. Not just the Mississippi, but also the Missouri (someone cited one above), the Ohio, and even the Wabash. Besides rivers shifting their channel, another contribution to this phenomenon is the way colonial borders were granted by British kings. When they favored someone who they were granting a new colony to, they sometimes granted them an entire river that formed the boundary of the colony. This was the case with the Ohio. Virginia, which originally owned Kentucky, was granted the entire river, so the boundary is along the north side of that river, rather than down middle or through the deepest channel. So it doesn’t take much shifting of the river to move part of the north shore to Kentucky. I think the same thing happened with the Delaware-New Jersey situation. The Potomac is another such, being entirely within Maryland, although I don’t know of any cross-river enclaves that caused. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/42 "2019-12-27T19:15:02Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Besides rivers shifting their channel, another contribution to this phenomenon is the way colonial borders were granted by British kings. When they favored someone who they were granting a new colony to, they sometimes granted them an entire river that formed the boundary of the colony. This was the case with the Ohio. Virginia, which originally owned Kentucky, was granted the entire river, so the boundary is along the north side of that river, rather than down middle or through the deepest channel. Ok a small correction on the Ohio River thing. It wasn’t a king that granted Virginia the entire river, but rather Parliament. This was in the aftermath of the French and Indian War. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/43 "2019-12-27T19:15:22Z")
Within Spain, Navarre has an enclave in Saragossa: the town of Petilla de Aragón, birthplace of 1906 Medicine Nobel winner Santiago Ramón y Cajal (he proved that the nervous system wasn’t a single “blob” as had previously been thought, but formed by individual cells he called “neurons”). Burgos has a very large one within the province of Álava: the [Condado de Treviño](http://www.xn--condadodetrevio-crb.es/). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/44 "2019-12-28T22:58:05Z")
On the order of the Northwest Angle (MN) and Point Roberts (WA), there is a tiny slice of Michigan between the Maumee River/Bay and the Ottawa River that can only be reached by land by driving through Toledo, OH. (It is a relic of the Toledo War.) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2019, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/45 "2019-12-28T23:33:49Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > On the order of the Northwest Angle (MN) and Point Roberts (WA), there is a tiny slice of Michigan between the Maumee River/Bay and the Ottawa River that can only be reached by land by driving through Toledo, OH. (It is a relic of the Toledo War.) There’s a small bit of Wisconsin, in the far NW corner, that can only be gotten to thru Minnesota by road. It’s got a bar, a body shop, a couple dozen houses, and a ski resort on it. [Wabegon](https://www.google.com/maps/@46.6600457,-92.2870716,1867m/data=!3m1!1e3) ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/46 "2019-12-31T13:50:55Z")
How about the [Vennbahn](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEM_cp6hVeM)? There are no less than five exclaves of western Germany surrounded by Belgium. But wait – the western part of Belgium that does the slicing is a narrow thread. It used to be a railroad built by Germany but was lost to Belgium by the Treaty of Versailles. The railroad fell into disuse and is now mostly\* a paved hiking and bicycle trail, but it still belongs to Belgium. \*There are a few km of track that you can rent a pedal car to travel on. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2019, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/47 "2019-12-31T23:16:05Z")
There are several ex/en/claves in the hills surrounding the Ferghana Valley, in Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan, of each other. [Barak](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barak,_Kyrgyzstan): of Kyrgyzstan, surrounded by Uzbekistan. Chon-Qora: of Uzbekistan, surrounded by Kyrgyzstan. Jani-Ayil: of Uzbekistan, surrounded by Kyrgyzstan. [Qayraghoch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayragach): of Tajikistan, surrounded by Kyrgyzstan. [Sarvan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarvan,_Tajikistan): of Tajikistan, surrounded by Uzbekistan. [Shohimardon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shohimardon): of Uzbekistan, surrounded by Kyrgyzstan. [So‘x](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/So%E2%80%98x_District): of Uzbekistan, surrounded by Kyrgyzstan. [Vorukh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorukh): of Tajikistan, surrounded by Kyrgyzstan. [Naxçıvan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakhchivan_Autonomous_Republic) is an autonomous republic of Azerbaijan that is detached from the rest of the country (Armenia gets in between), but does have a short border with Turkey. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/48 "2020-01-01T00:00:43Z")
There are several Mississippi enclaves on the West side of Miss River in Arkansas, and Vice Versa. Just South of Memphis. Maybe all the way down the river into SW Mississippi where it shares a border w/ Louisiana ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/49 "2020-01-01T13:14:22Z")
I [checked](https://www.pointswithacrew.com/point-roberts-washington-its-harder-to-get-to-than-you-think/) the territorial waters thing regarding Pt. Roberts, WA, USA. It’s territorial waters are contiguous with the mainland’s territorial waters. So you can boat back and forth between Pr. Roberts and, say, Bellingham and stay in US waters the whole way. OTOH, for the places in BC along Boundary Bay to boat to, say, Vancouver, BC you have to cross US waters. Checking other places along the US-Canada boundary, I see that on the east coast no similar situations arises, although channels and bridges might limit what size boats could pass from Moose Island, ME to other US territorial waters. On the Alaska/BC border it’s a really [long](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Stewart,+BC,+Canada/@55.243443,-130.3129574,8.75z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x540bce0b0b39da2b:0x66ea3dc732d8ce46!8m2!3d55.9413173!4d-129.9878311) and careful boat ride from Stewart, BC to to get open seas while staying in Canadian waters. Even longer if starting near there on the US side and staying in US waters. Narrow passages and canals make it tricky to stay in just one country’s waters in the Great Lakes region. In particular, to boat from Lake Erie to Lake Ontario via US waters requires the “boat” to be a barrel and a less-than-safe trip over Niagara Falls. (The Arctic Ocean boundary is straightforward and therefore utterly boring.) ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/50 "2020-01-01T19:23:48Z")
For a different case, [Bir\_Tawil]([BIR - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bir) Tawil) is part of no country, as it is territory claimed by neither of the countries it borders. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/51 "2020-01-03T16:07:34Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Fishers Island, NY can’t be reached by a land vehicle without going through Connecticut. It was part of my home town, but takes 3+ hours to reach because you need to take two ferries. It’s also the only part of New York State with a zip code that starts with “0”. (Every other part of NYS has ‘1’ as the leading digit of its zip code.) ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/52 "2020-01-03T19:11:33Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > In particular, to boat from Lake Erie to Lake Ontario via US waters requires the “boat” to be a barrel and a less-than-safe trip over Niagara Falls. I wonder whether the Erie Canal has connections to Lake Ontario, say around Rochester? And I wonder whether there is a treaty specifically allowing US vessels to transit the Welland Canal without going through Canadian customs? Is the St Lawrence Seaway an international passage in some sense? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/53 "2020-01-03T19:15:43Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > It’s also the only part of New York State with a zip code that starts with “0”. (Every other part of NYS has ‘1’ as the leading digit of its zip code.) And Estcourt Station, Maine is the only place in the US to share an area code with a Canadian Province, Quebec. 418 It too is a bit of Maine only accessible by road via Quebec. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/54 "2020-01-03T20:00:13Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I wonder whether the Erie Canal has connections to Lake Ontario, say around Rochester? [sure](http://www.pcmarinesurveys.com/PHOTOS%20Erie%20Canal/a.jpg). Tonawanda to Oswego by canal, easy peasy ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/55 "2020-01-04T16:06:22Z")
Up until 1994 there was [Kowloon Walled City](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City), an abandoned Chinese fort in Kowloon City in British Hong Kong. It became a completely lawless settlement - 50,000 people crammed into 300 haphazardly-interconnected buildings on 6.4 acres of land. Criminals, unlicensed doctors, people who just wanted to live outside the law - it was a really interesting situation, and a fascinating place. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/56 "2020-01-05T04:26:06Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > Up until 1994 there was [Kowloon Walled City](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City), an abandoned Chinese fort in Kowloon City in British Hong Kong. It became a completely lawless settlement - 50,000 people crammed into 300 haphazardly-interconnected buildings on 6.4 acres of land. Criminals, unlicensed doctors, people who just wanted to live outside the law - it was a really interesting situation, and a fascinating place. Chip Delaney’s [Triton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triton_(novel)) features a “lawless zone” for those wishing not to comply even with the colony moon’s libertarian regulations. But it was no haven for criminals, as cops weren’t bound by laws there, either. No due process in the free zone. But you’re free to hang dirty laundry unless someone cuts it down. A quibble with the thread title: Enclaves and exclaves aren’t so much “geographical” as “border” anomalies. Physical features remain in place; people draw their lines wherever and claim whatever, changing with the latest conquest. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/57 "2020-01-05T06:38:43Z")
[Nagorno-Karabakh](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagorno-Karabakh) ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/58 "2020-01-05T07:18:16Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > And I wonder whether there is a treaty specifically allowing US vessels to transit the Welland Canal without going through Canadian customs? Is the St Lawrence Seaway an international passage in some sense? In a sense, yes. I was able to find this, which likely clarifies the existing laws and such on the topic: [http://shipfed.ca/membersarea/circularletter/9525](http://shipfed.ca/membersarea/circularletter/9525) In particular: > [@](#): > > **Vessels destined to a U.S. port** > > Vessels destined to U.S. Great Lakes ports (including vessels travelling through the Welland Canal) are not required to report to CBSA. > > Vessels loading at a U.S. port and destined to either another U.S. port or an international destination are not required to report to CBSA, unless they plan to stop at a Canadian port first, in which case Port Colbourne will be the first Canadian port of arrival and the vessel will be required to provide CBSA with an A6 report, crew list, ship’s stores declaration, and PAN report. No ACI report is required… ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/60 "2020-03-02T10:23:23Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > For a different case, [Bir\_Tawil]([BIR - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bir) Tawil) is part of no country, as it is territory claimed by neither of the countries it borders. I can’t imagine how shitty of a hellhole it must be that NObody has called “dibs” there. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413/61 "2020-03-02T11:19:17Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > I can’t imagine how shitty of a hellhole it must be that NObody has called “dibs” there. Whichever of Egypt or Sudan claims it, would effectively lose their claim to the Halayib Triangle, because they’d then be using the same border definition as their opponent. So it’s not that Bir Tawil is shitty, it’s that nobody wants to be first to blink. Other microstate idiots have tried claiming it, but it’s in the Sahara…good luck with that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-any-others-like-this/845413.md?page=4)