# Geographic Anomaly: Bit of Kentucky, other places **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 22, 2000, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817 "2000-12-22T04:23:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2000, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/41 "2000-12-28T23:46:19Z")
Speaking of “innurbs” (great word, BTW), I’m surprised nobody has mentioned the “not in city” hole in the Chicago map out on the Northwest Side in the vicinity of O’Hare. The villages of Harwood Heights and Norridge are in that hole. They have 708 telephone numbers even though they are surrounded by 773 (city) territory. But until recently, they used city post offices and had 606XX zip codes. After years of petitions from the residents, the Postal Service redrew the postal boundaries (without building any new post office) so that Norridge and Harwood Heights would be a single postal zone with no city overlap. This was done solely to give the residents a suburban 607XX postal code and therefore cheaper auto and homeowner’s/renter’s insurance. (Big fat bloody :rolleyes: to the insurance companies for jacking up the rates when you cross Irving Park Road from a low-crime middle-class _suburban_ neighborhood of 1920s bungalows to a low-crime middle-class _city_ neighborhood of 1920s bungalows.) ---
**Author:** ![eponymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e0b2c6/32.png) [@eponymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eponymous)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/42 "2000-12-29T00:36:39Z")
\*Originally posted by dtilque \* > [@](#): > > Unless, you count the South Pole, where half a dozen or so claims for Antarctic territory meet, there are no places where more than 3 countries meet. What about Zimbabwe, Zambia, Botswana, and Namibia? I always thought that these countries all met at one point (near Victoria Falls). ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/43 "2000-12-29T01:32:48Z")
> [@](#): > > What about Zimbabwe, Zambia, Botswana, and Namibia? I always thought that these countries all met at one point (near Victoria Falls). Looks like Botswana and Zambia have a very short section of continuous border, so Namibia and Zimbabwe don’t meet. Does look like it until you zoom in on a map, though. Now, WHY does Namibia have that silly little panhandle (the “Caprivi Strip”) sticking over there? I never noticed that before? BTW, the last time we were through the Kentucky anomoly, didn’t we have a consensus that it wasn’t caused by the New Madrid quake? It looks like it’s simply the result of extending a latitude line border across a bend in the river, the river being the border between MO and both KY/TN. ( “Kentucky Nipple” - I like it. Somebody write the KY state govt and suggest it. ) Speaking of geographical anomolies in Africa, observe Senegal and Gambia - a river and the land next to it is a separate country (Gambia) completely surrounded by another (Senegal). HOW in the hell did that come about and remain at all a stable political condition? I can’t imagine Senegal being at all happy about that. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2000, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/44 "2000-12-29T01:45:43Z")
OK, it has the silly little panhandle because Namibia used to be German South West Africa and Germany negotiated for it because they wanted access to the Zambezi. And The Gambia started out as British settlements along the Gambia River while Senegal was controlled by the French. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2000, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/45 "2000-12-30T02:45:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\*I’m not sure that I would call Michigan’s two peninsulas exclaves/enclaves (although that sort of boundary is rare), but the Congressional edict that settled the Toledo War (giving Michigan the U.P.) did create an anomaly by setting the southern boundary of Michigan on a parallel that cuts across the mouths of both the Ottawa River and Shanree Creek as they enter Lake Erie, creating _two_ Michigan peninsulas that are only accessible from Ohio. Had the boundary been set a few hundred yards farther north, Reed Run would also have been included, creating three such peninsulas. (There is a lot of water seeping into Lake Erie at that point.) I have heard that the houses on those peninsulas are served by the Toldeo Fire Department, but that is only hearsay. Originally, only summer cottages were out there, but as Toledo has expanded, they have built new homes “on the water” (pretty much literally). \*\* A cool anomaly. I’ve looked it up in Michigan’s Atlas and Gazetteer, by DeLorme, and I wanted to visit it last time we drove past Toledo, but the wife and kids weren’t interested. I just don’t understand some people. Did you know New York state has a water border with Rhode Island? By boat or air, one can go directly from New York to Rhode Island without all that tedious mucking about in Connecticutt. Now there’s news we can use! ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2000, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/46 "2000-12-30T04:02:31Z")
**yabob** - There was an attempt to form a confederation between Senegal and The Gambia called [Senegambia](http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/1/0,5716,68481+1+66757,00.html?query=senegambia), but the Gambians feared they would be swallowed up by their larger neighbor, and backed out. Conversely, [Casamance](http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/3/0,5716,20923+1+20597,00.html?query=casamance), the southern portion of Senegal, which is geographically rather isolated from the rest of the country by The Gambia, has a distinctive regional identity, and there have been attempts to establish an independent state there. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2000, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/47 "2000-12-30T04:02:47Z")
> [@](#): > > We also have a “quadpoint” at four corners in AZ / NM / CO UT. I’m sure there are others. Canada has a “quadpoint” as well, as of April 1, 1999, when the new Nunavut Territory was created. Nunavut, the Northwest Territories, and the provinces of Saskatchewan and Manitoba all meet at the 60th parallel. I don’t know if anyone has actually ever gone there to have their picture taken, like at the quadpoint AZ/NM/CO/UT - it’s a tad isolated, and rather chilly, especially at this time of year. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2000, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/48 "2000-12-31T08:14:16Z")
There are actually two cities named Kansas City, as the urban area itself lies on the border between Kansa and Missouri. Part of the dividing line is a river, but in some places you walk across the street and you are in a different state. Back before the liquor laws were(somewhat) liberalized in Kansas the odd border proved convenient for my sister and her fellow Pharmacy students. After a hard day of classes in Kansas all you had to do to get a drink was to go across the street. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/49 "2001-01-04T05:06:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Phouchg \* > \*\*so then what is the story in the Commonwealth of Virginia? I seee on a map than pretty much any incorporated city is independent of the county that surrounds it (or in some cases it is the whole county like Arlington). \*\* Arlington is still a county. It isn’t incorporated; i.e., it’s not a city. And there’s a law on its books that no part of it can incorporate or join adjacent cities. Alexandria is a city wedged between Arlington and Fairfax Counties. It’s tough to say that any county surrounds it. To add to the confusion: There’s a City of Fairfax, surrounded by the County of Fairfax. But the county’s courthouse is within the city. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/50 "2001-01-04T05:41:25Z")
Dallas, TX has more than one ‘innurb’. Highland Park is one of them, I’m trying to find a good color-coded map of Dallas online so I can find the others… ---
**Author:** ![McKenna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/db5fbb/32.png) [@McKenna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McKenna)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/51 "2001-01-04T06:47:23Z")
First of all, AWB, Courtney is indeed wicked cute! You can discern I post from Massachusetts. Although it’s too small to show up on most maps, a eenstsy part of MA intrudes into Connecticut near Hartford and is known as “The Southwick Jog”. [The Story of the Southwick Jog](http://strsd.southwick.ma.us/woodland/teachers/bwhalley/childshistory/schedule.htm) It all stems from a surveying error made in the 1640s by Messrs. Saffery and Woodward, who started out in a nice straight line from the coast and then had detour south to take the long way up the Connecticut River due to a particularly nasty local Indian war. They landed safely and began surveying again to the west, but they’d mistakenly started seven miles to the south of where they’d been. It took until 1793 for it all to be straightened out, which is actually not too bad for Massachusetts. We’re still debating whether or not the beach between the high and low water mark can be walked on by the public 400 years later. There’s also Brookline, an independent city in Norfolk County completely engulfed by Boston (Suffolk County). As the formerly independent towns around it like Roxbury, Dorchester, and Jamaica Plain were annexed in the 1890s, Brookline remained aloof and now is an outpost. Of course, since county government means virtually nothing up here nobody much cares. Bye from Middlesex County. ---
**Author:** ![McKenna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/db5fbb/32.png) [@McKenna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McKenna)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/52 "2001-01-04T06:50:23Z")
D’oh! Brookline is a town, not a city. MA only has 39 cities and over 300 towns. Some of the towns are bigger than the cities. And some famous places, like Hyannis, don’t officially exist. MA recognizes just cities and towns and Hyannis is one of six parts of the town of Barnstable. I’ll shut up before I get into Newton Upper Falls and Newton Lower Falls and West Newton and… ---
**Author:** ![kpm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c57346/32.png) [@kpm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kpm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/53 "2001-01-04T13:52:44Z")
Bristol TN and Bristol Va are separate cities but they look like one city. It is really weird to be driving down a city street and see a sign that says “Welcome to Virginia” I don’t know if they started separate and grew together or if the city just kept growing over the border. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/54 "2001-01-04T19:01:30Z")
There’s a number of places where two cities with the same name are separated by a border, with an optional river between them. However, this is pretty much a North American phenomenon, in Europe cities adjacent across borders will usually have different names, often because the languages are different across the borders. Besides Kansas City and Bristol TN/VA, there’s Texarkana TX/AR, Bluefield VA/WV, Sault Ste. Marie ON/MI, Niagara Falls NY/ON, Lloydminster AB/SK, and Nogales AZ/Sonora. Those are just the larger ones, there are numerous smaller ones around as well. Bluefield VA/WV is interesting in its government. From what I understand, the two cities share their government. That is, there’s one city council and mayor for both cities. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2001, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/55 "2001-01-08T18:15:30Z")
dtilque, there’s also Niagara Falls, NY/ON. If anyone plans to go there, go to the Canadian side. We stayed in the American side; that’s a scary looking town after dark. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2001, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/56 "2001-01-08T18:19:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by McKenna \* > \*\*First of all, AWB, Courtney is indeed wicked cute! \*\* Thanks! :)🙂 You’re only the second person to comment on her pics. Maybe everyone else is too shamed that they cannot possibly have such a cute child, and have given up trying to procreate. :D:D ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2001, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/57 "2001-01-08T19:48:11Z")
One of the better exclaves is Marble Hill, which until about 1900 was at the very tip of Manhattan. A change in the channel between Manhattan and the Bronx put Marble Hill on the “wrong” side - politically, it’s still part of Manhattan (New York County) even though it’s surrounded by Bronx County. (NYC comprises five counties, which are also called “boroughs”, Borough of Manhattan/New York County, Borough of Brooklyn/Kings County, Borough of the Bronx/Bronx County, Borough of Queens/Queens County, Borough of Staten Island/Richmond County. City government uses the Borough names, but the state and federal governments use the county names.) Here’s the scoop from Columbia University: [http://www.columbia.edu/cu/bb/oldstuff/bb0313.15.html](http://www.columbia.edu/cu/bb/oldstuff/bb0313.15.html) ---
**Author:** ![labradorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3ec8ea/32.png) [@labradorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labradorian)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2001, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/58 "2001-01-08T19:59:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\*On the subject of Michigan anomalies, Detroit has two inurbs: Hamtramck and Highland Park are each surrounded by detroit except for a short border between themselves. In the 1950s, Hamtramck was the second largest “Polish” city in the world, right behind Warsaw. (Based on the number of ethnic Poles and speakers of Polish in the cities.) \*\* Until New Years Day, Ottawa had two similar “inurbs”; Vanier and Rockliffe Park. Now Ottawa and all its Ontario suburbs have had the bejeezus amalgamated out of them, at long last. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2001, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/59 "2001-01-09T01:23:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AWB \* > dtilque, there’s also Niagara Falls, NY/ON. To say nothing of Viagra Falls, the only one where the, um, fluid goes upwards… Other international ones (in the very small category) are Roosville BC/MT and Del Bonita AB/MT. The ones on the American side don’t show on current atlases since they’ve shrunk too much, but I have a 30-year-old atlas that shows them. In other geographical oddities, there’s been mention in this thread of several places along the Mississippi where part of a state is on the “wrong” side (e.g. Kaskaskia, IL). This has apparently also happened on the Wabash River between IL and IN. There’s two little bits of Indiana on the west of that river. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2002, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817/60 "2002-11-25T04:43:51Z")
Oman has two little exclaves surrounded by territory of the United Arab Emirates: the larger of the two is Musandam, out on the end of the Musandam Peninsula, which is a very strategic position overlooking the choke point of the Strait of Hormuz. The other is a little spot called Madha further up the peninsula between Musandam and Oman proper; you need a really fine-grained map to even find it. The reason these exist is that the “national” territory was really the personal fiefdom or property of the sultan. The internal borders of the various emirates in the UAE are all tangled like that, because it is a new nation that coalesced out of separate fiefdoms, and each emir owned a plot of land here, a plot of land there… At some point the ruler’s personal domains become fused with the more abstract concept of national territory. Oman used to have another exclave named Gwadar, which is on the coast of Pakistan of all places. It was a remnant of the 19th-century maritime empire of the sultan’s fiefdoms that extended all the way to Zanzibar. That too was the sultan’s personal real estate. But he ceded it to Pakistan in 1958. More on enclaves: [http://vwww.abo.fi/users/rpalmber/enclaves.htm](http://vwww.abo.fi/users/rpalmber/enclaves.htm) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographic-anomaly-bit-of-kentucky-other-places/46817.md?page=4)