Here’s your mistake: Superhal hasn’t actually made a point. He has made a supposition. One which is unsupported by any facts.
I have presented evidence which at the very least suggests that Superhal is mistaken in his supposition.
Do you have any evidence that you would like to present?
(And by the way, you are attributing a degree of sophistication and subtlety to Superhal’s argument that just wasn’t there. His point was quite simple. And wrong.)
Point taken. Let’s call it Superhal’s WAG, then.
No, you haven’t. I’ve already explained to you that your “evidence” doesn’t demonstrate what you think it does, and why. If you didn’t understand the first time, I’d be happy to explain again, if you tell me exactly what you’re confused about.
Nope, I’m too lazy to do the research. I’m just pointing out that you haven’t disproven his idea or proven yours. His point stands as an uncited WAG, and your evidence stands as useless for demonstrating any point you tried to make.
Well let’s go ahead and list those top ten most segregated cities, shall we?
Only one red state in the bunch. (Missouri, which is arguably purple.)
And while we’re at it, let’s look at the 5 cities with the least even racial distribution (cities where blacks are least evenly spread) from this site:
Five for five!
Or maybe the 5 “Lowest Exposure” cities? (cities where blacks have lowest chance of having contact with non-blacks)
Or hey, how about the 5 “Most Concentrated Metros” (cities where blacks are most densely concentrated/least spread throughout the metro area)
Feel free to present evidence at any time. Otherwise, it’s going to be awfully hard holding onto that self-congratulatory belief that “blue states tend to be racially integrated down to the neighborhood level.”
1.) I never said I agreed with the WAG. I have no idea one way or the other, but I’m open to evidence either way. Evidence that you keep failing to present.
2.) In one ear and out the other, huh? Yet again, you’re completely missing the point. It’s entirely possible that the most segregated areas could be in blue territory, while blue areas *as a whole *are still more integrated than red areas as a whole, (especially if red areas contain fewer minorities, period).
“The Top X” mean *nothing *when you’re discussing trends as a whole, because they could be statistical outliers. If you’re so confident that you’re right, go make the overlay map I suggested a couple of posts ago instead of listing the “most segregated” cities, which do not necessarily reflect the overall trends for what areas have the greatest cross-ethnic-group exposure.
Really? That’s the line you want to take? You really want to suggest that gosh, maybe red states like Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas and Texas might have fewer black people than the blue states?
Really?
Look, if you are “too lazy” to do the research, maybe you should stay out of GQ. Either way, I’ll pass on the homework assignment. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
Says the guy who expects me to accept evidence that doesn’t actually prove what he thinks it proves? Fine, two can play at that game. Look, here’s proof that the Sun orbits the Earth.
You’re the one with a dog in this race. Go ahead, convince me. But don’t just throw out some statistics that don’t actually relate to the WAG that was made and expect me to lap them up without considering the actual implications.
It’s pretty clear to me that this is primarily a population density issue. If you look at a map showing percentage of votes by county, the majority of all counties in recent elections have voted red (even in many blue states), but the election is close enough that the blue counties must clearly have a higher weight (ie. more votes) in order to counteract this.
Here’s a link to a map that isn’t my favorite, but you can at least see the idea.
The question you could then ask becomes “WHY does a more populous area equal a ‘bluer’ vote”? As mentioned above, city living requires more government intervention, and that’s probably the largest single piece. I also believe, however, that there’s definitely an ingrained social aspect (my friends and teachers vote blue, so so do I).
That should not be discounted. The South has voted as a bloc since the Civil War. First it was a Democratic bloc, now it is a Republican bloc. Groupthink is a factor.
And now that I think about it, I’m not so sure about the less-density-therefore-wants-less-from-government idea. The populist movement of the 19th century came to fruition in those same sparsely populated states, and that movement definitely wanted more government.
If we’re dealing with the level of generalization in this thread, then I can say that any social explanation for the 19th century is irrelevant for the 21st century.
I think there is something to the support of the general level of business / gun regulations and large cities. However, that doesn’t translate into actual fiscal conservatism, as rural residents are just fine with accepting and demanding agriculture and road subsidies.
One other common thread in the red states is a very macho culture, and I think Republicans have worked hard to make themselves seem like the “macho” party.
The reddest of red states is Utah. Macho is always the way I’ve pictured it.
That reminds me of another marker. Religion. Most (but not all) of the red states have a protestant plurality. Most of the blue states have a Catholic plurality. You can find the stats here.
Anybody who wants to argue about red and blue states needs to read Andrew Gelman’s “Red State, Blue State, Rich State, Poor State”. It’s a bit dry, but there are some extremely interesting and counterintuitive things going on in American politics, and I’ve never seen any other source bring them up.
The Electoral College is the major factor dividing states between Red and Blue. Which, as has been explained many times before, is a rather simplistic way of looking at things.
The South voted Democratic until the Republicans instituted the Southern Strategy–long after the Civil War. Parts of the South still vote Democratic. (When results came in from Texas during the last Presidential election, Obama was ahead. Because the cities’ votes were counted first. Then the suburban & rural votes came in & things turned toward the Red.)
Blue States also tend to be donor states- that is, they pay more in Federal taxes than the y get back, and Red States tend to be donee states.