# Geographical mental images you can't shake even though they are incorrect. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 27, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459 "2014-02-27T23:20:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/81 "2014-03-03T16:30:42Z")
The same tilt the MTA gives to New York on subway makes, my brain gives to Europe, putting Russia north, rather than east, of everything. Also, Afghanistan is west of Iran in my mental map, and Iran north of Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/82 "2014-03-03T20:26:12Z")
Outside of Alaska, Michigan has the most coastline of any US state. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/83 "2014-03-03T20:57:10Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > (snip…) And shouldn’t Japan be further south, relative to the Koreas? This! I know better now, but this errant mental image must’ve formed when I was a punk kid slacking in geography, and it’s hard to shake. Being in San Fransisco not too long ago my cronies and I were having lunch on the Pacific Coast and I wondered what the closest major city SF was in line with by latitude. Turned out to be Tokyo. We were all slightly surprised. > [@panache45](#): > > And why is Amsterdam further north than London? England prefers to keep them _upwind_. Well, some do. > [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Well, if you kept going north, you’d start flaying around in a circle before you got to Russia. Naw, you’d enter an alternate universe after passing through the North Pole Singularity, and emerge on an alternate earth where the poles are flopped, all maps would seem upside-down, toilets flush the other way, and kangaroos all over Canada. > [@kanicbird](#): > > I sort of think the earth considerably larger then it should be in respect to the other planets. I most likely consider Pluto larger also then actual as I still consider it a planet. Well, Earth is the largest of the terrestrial planets, Venus being a close second in size. Our moon’s relatively big for its orbital parent. That said, [Pluto is about half the size of our moon.](http://snowbrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/pluto-size.jpg) Can’t wait to see the real, detailed surface in 2016 with the New Horizons probe. > [@Ayatollah Yawuntz](#): > > Chicago is at the bottom of Lake Michigan. A modern day Atlantis! And some didn’t believe global warming a reality! Oh the humanity… I hope Oprah (and Cecil) got out okay… ---
**Author:** ![SylverOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SylverOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SylverOne)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/84 "2014-03-03T21:38:34Z")
Bermuda and Tahiti were down with the rest of the islands in the Caribbean. Bermuda not so much… Tahiti’s not even in the same ocean. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/85 "2014-03-04T00:49:07Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > I don’t know if this is 100% accurate, but I remember hearing that the overwhelming majority of Canadians live within 100 miles of the border. Huh. I guess it just sometimes _feels_ like they’re all in Thailand. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/86 "2014-03-04T01:53:51Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Outside of Alaska, Michigan has the most coastline of any US state. [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_coastline) says Michigan is #9 ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/87 "2014-03-04T02:08:34Z")
But inside of Alaska, it’s too cold to swim. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/88 "2014-03-04T03:54:33Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_coastline) says Michigan is #9 That appears to be oceanic coastline. Michigan is fresh water. ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/89 "2014-03-04T04:28:44Z")
It always seems to me that Pennsylvania ought to have a coastline. It doesn’t, of course, New Jersey is in the way. It does have a deepwater port, I believe on the Delaware River. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/90 "2014-03-04T04:30:25Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > That appears to be oceanic coastline. Michigan is fresh water. Coastlines are a surprisingly hard thing to calculate. They all basically go infinite or indefinite once you measure closer and closer. I read this thread and then took a [Sporcle.com](http://Sporcle.com) quiz that asked the same question just by chance. I was happy to type in in ‘Michigan’ but it didn’t accept that. The answer it was looking for was Florida but I dispute that one as well. Other states that try to lay claim the same title are California, Minnesota and Maine. Prove any of them wrong definitely and you have just won yourself a math PhD from Harvard or MIT. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/91 "2014-03-04T04:44:07Z")
> [@SeldomSeen](#): > > It always seems to me that Pennsylvania ought to have a coastline. It doesn’t, of course, New Jersey is in the way. It does have a deepwater port, I believe on the Delaware River. But Pennsylvania does have a coast–it’s just on Lake Erie. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/92 "2014-03-04T04:51:35Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > That appears to be oceanic coastline. Michigan is fresh water. Well Method 1 is ocean coasts only, which is why Michigan is not ranked at all, but in Method 2, which the article says “also include the Great Lakes coastlines” Michigan is #9 ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/93 "2014-03-04T04:52:14Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Coastlines are a surprisingly hard thing to calculate. They all basically go infinite or indefinite once you measure closer and closer. I read this thread and then took a [Sporcle.com](http://Sporcle.com) quiz that asked the same question just by chance. I was happy to type in in ‘Michigan’ but it didn’t accept that. The answer it was looking for was Florida but I dispute that one as well. Other states that try to lay claim the same title are California, Minnesota and Maine. Prove any of them wrong definitely and you have just won yourself a math PhD from Harvard or MIT. Yep, very well aware of the fractal-like coastline problem. Even a state like Louisiana, do you count the gulf and river as coastline? Personally I would. Just looking at both of Michigan’s peninsulas, it’s a clear contender for #2. Maybe it’s just one of those myths you hear being a native Michigander? There’s [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan#Geography) on the Michigan Wikipedia page, FWIW: [Quote=Wikipedia] Numerous lakes and marshes mark both peninsulas, and the coast is much indented. Keweenaw Bay, Whitefish Bay, and the Big and Little Bays De Noc are the principal indentations on the Upper Peninsula. The Grand and Little Traverse, Thunder, and Saginaw bays indent the Lower Peninsula. **Michigan has the second longest shoreline of any state—3,288 miles (5,292 km),[38] including 1,056 miles (1,699 km) of island shoreline.[39]** [/quote] Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chockfullofheadygoodness/32/511_2.png) [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/94 "2014-03-04T22:07:08Z")
Mentally I always envision Australia being much further south and more isolated. To me it’s weird that a substantial portion of the continent is in the tropics. I picture Indonesia and Papua/New Guinea as tropical, but I can’t get my head around the fact that so is Darwin, which is less than 500 miles from Timor. > [@SeldomSeen](#): > > Closer to home, being a native of Oregon and Idaho, I have never been able to entirely divest myself of the Westerner’s conceit that everything past the continental divide is “The East”. I know, it’s hard to countenance the notion that Cheyenne, Denver or El Paso are back east, but hey that’s the way it feels to me:o I hear you. I grew up in California, and every 2 or 3 years my family would go “back east” to visit the relatives in Wisconsin. To me, Wisconsin was back east which meant the midwest was stuff like Kansas and the Dakotas. To me, Ohio can’t be midwest, it’s too far east. I still have to mentally readjust “Midwest” -\> Great Plains, and “Back East” -\> Midwest. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/95 "2014-03-05T00:15:02Z")
> [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](#): > > Mentally I always envision Australia being much further south and more isolated. To me it’s weird that a substantial portion of the continent is in the tropics. I picture Indonesia and Papua/New Guinea as tropical, but I can’t get my head around the fact that so is Darwin, which is less than 500 miles from Timor. One of Australia’s Torres Strait islands is [less than 4km from the PNG coast](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TorresStraitIslandsMap.png). ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/96 "2014-03-05T02:49:30Z")
Is anyone else momentarily disoriented in places with different geographical arrangements to where they grew up? For me, I’m used to places where there is a definite southern boundary. I grew up in the Whitby area, on the northern shore of Lake Ontario. All my life, I’ve had a psychological boundary to my south, both the Lakes and rivers, and the actual US/Canada boundary (“Bridge to USA”!). So, when I visit Montreal, no problem as long as I stay downtown. Water on the south side, I’m okay. Helsinki? Water on the south side, no problem. And Helsinki’s landscape even looks like Central Ontario. But… I go to Ottawa or Hamilton? Water on the north side! Aiiee! They’re not like San Francisco or London, which are different enough to continuously remind me of the difference; Ottawa and Hamilton lull me into usual thought habits and then surprise me when I’m trying to navigate. > [@Spoons](#): > > But Pennsylvania does have a coast–it’s just on Lake Erie. And both Manitoba and Ontario have long salt-water coasts… on Hudson’s Bay. We forget this, because those areas are so far from the major population centres. (And I spent some time a while ago determining that the northern third of Ontario is a swamp larger than Ireland.) > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Huh. I guess it just sometimes _feels_ like they’re all in Thailand. I’m not. And I’d kind of like to be right now, even though normally I avoid any humid climates warmer than about 28 degrees. I do _not_ do well in hot and humid; I like hot and dry. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/97 "2014-03-05T02:58:05Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > I’ve always had this idea DC was way further south, like somewhere around South Carolina. It confuses me when people start talking about having high speed rail to surrounding areas because I think it’s so much farther. Also, I thought Maryland was more to the west, which further confuses me when people talk about its proximity to Washington. > > Hell, I’m just bad at geography. Don’t ask me about the Middle East at all! Some of my adopted state of Maryland is pretty far from DC; it goes a long way from east to west (although not as far as my home state of Tennessee; the northeast corner of the state is almost as close to New York City as it is to Memphis. ---
**Author:** ![Arabella\_Flynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8491ac/32.png) [@Arabella\_Flynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arabella_Flynn)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/98 "2014-03-05T03:01:58Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > For the longest time, my brain insisted on telling me that New York City was north of Boston. This. I _live_ in Boston now, and I still have to remind myself. I have no idea why NYC has cemented itself in my mind as “north of everything”. One of these days I’ll take the train up to Maine and my entire sense of geography will probably turn itself inside out. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/99 "2014-03-05T03:57:00Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I’m not. And I’d kind of like to be right now, even though normally I avoid any humid climates warmer than about 28 degrees. I do _not_ do well in hot and humid; I like hot and dry. You’d like Hawaii. Perfect climate. Humidity gets blown out to sea by the trade winds. Never too hot. I noticed I had an inordinate number of Canadian classmates at the university there. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459/100 "2014-03-05T05:51:57Z")
The Atlantic entrance to the Panama Canal is West of the Pacific entrance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-mental-images-you-cant-shake-even-though-they-are-incorrect/682459.md?page=6)