# Geographical offensiveness of "Paki" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 18, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963 "2003-08-18T14:10:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![hammerbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hammerbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammerbach)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/1 "2003-08-18T14:10:27Z")
I saw in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=205380) thread that use of the term “Paki” is considered offensive. I didn’t know that, nor do many people around me. The posters who mentioned that it is offensive seem to be from the UK. The question: is the term “Paki” offensive outside the UK, or even in Pakistan? ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/2 "2003-08-18T14:28:41Z")
In the thread you linked to there is another link to an article about President Bush’s misuse of the word. Spellings in that article suggest to me that it was written by an American and he seemed confident that an American audience ought to be aware that Paki is an offensive word. ---
**Author:** ![Sparrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Sparrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparrow)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/3 "2003-08-18T14:33:15Z")
I don’t know about elsewhere, but in the UK it’s extremely offensive … the equivalent of “n\*\*\*\*r”. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/4 "2003-08-18T14:40:58Z")
Well, with all due respect, the OP is not asking about how it’s perceived in the UK. That has already been established. I’ve never heard of it. I asked a number of co-workers, who had also never heard of the term, let alone that in the UK it’s considered a slur. Probably similar to “wog.” I think that means “Indian,” but in the US it’s meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![In\_Conceivable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4bbf92/32.png) [@In\_Conceivable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Conceivable)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/5 "2003-08-18T14:45:00Z")
I live in the US and didn’t know that Paki was an offensive term. I have never really heard anyone use it. However, if someone did use it around me in a way like the OP in the linked thread did it would never occur to me that it was meant to be offensive. ---
**Author:** ![hammerbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hammerbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammerbach)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/6 "2003-08-18T14:46:26Z")
Yes, but they have an apparent agenda (to make Bush look ignorant). He went on to quote sources positing that most Americans do not know that it’s a slur, and that the term originated in the UK. I did read the article, but I prefer a somewhat calmer source without an agenda. So I’m not looking for an opinion piece like that article, or a debate as to whether an unintended offense is inexcuseable, or who is stupid, or anything else like that. I wish to know the geographical limits of the offensiveness of that term. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/7 "2003-08-18T14:48:19Z")
When I was in high school in Whitby, Ontario, it was the second most offensive thing you could say. ---
**Author:** ![hammerbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hammerbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammerbach)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/8 "2003-08-18T14:50:29Z")
Sorry, my last post was directed to **everton**. BTW, thank you , **everton** , for your quick response. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/9 "2003-08-18T14:57:05Z")
I have never heard an American use the term before, and was not aware that it was offensive in the UK. I suppose it is like the term “kaffir”, which is also (apparently) offensive, but almost unknown in the US. Or perhaps like the British term “fag”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/10 "2003-08-18T15:01:18Z")
The only time I can recall hearing or seeing it here is in reference to the Pakistan cricket team (although usually it’s “Paks”). I’m not aware of any offensive term for South Asians in common use here. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/11 "2003-08-18T15:02:55Z")
English-language Indian newspapers that I’ve read refer to Pakistan as “Pak”, and Pakistanis as “Paks”. Googling for “paki” on only Indian sites gives us very few sites that use this word in context, though one of the few hits is a collection of anti-Pakistani jokes written in English and Hindi. Meanwhile, a search for “paki” on Pakistani sites mainly gives us a number of news reports in Pakistani newspapers about the British ruling against the word. Probably not representative of anything, but interesting nonetheless, [here](http://www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=149) is a Pakistani message board discussing the use of the word. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/12 "2003-08-18T15:09:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Earl Snake-Hips Tucker \* > \*\*Probably similar to “wog.” I think that means “Indian,” but in the US it’s meaningless. \*\* No it doesn’t. Merriam-Webster has these entries: Main Entry: Paki Pronunciation: 'pa-kE, 'pä- Function: _noun_ Etymology: short for _Pakistani_ Date: 1964 _chiefly British, usually disparaging_ **:** a Pakistani immigrant Main Entry: wog Pronunciation: 'wäg, 'wog Function: _noun_ Etymology: perhaps short for _golliwog_ Date: circa 1929 _chiefly British, usually disparaging_ **:** a dark-skinned foreigner; _especially_ **:** one from the Middle East or Far East (there are several other interpretations of the origin of this word, but perhaps this is not the place to discuss them) Whatever you think of the Monkeyfist article it made a reference to a column in the _New York Times_ by William Safire. Unfortunately that does not seem to be on the web for free, but the [NYT archive](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70E10FF395E0C738FDDA00894D9404482) offers it at a cost. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Shodan_ > Or perhaps like the British term “fag”. That is not generally an offensive word. Perhaps you meant “the American term fag”? ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/13 "2003-08-18T15:17:53Z")
I can say I’ve never heard it before, either. However, for some reason it just _sounds_ disrespectful. I guess to me the abrupt abbreviation and the way the word sounds it just seems like it would be intended with disrespect–like calling Germans Germs, Canadians Cans, or Mexicans Mexis. I certainly would avoid using such a word (or “making it up” by abbreviating the full word), even though I’ve never heard it before and didn’t know it was offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/14 "2003-08-18T15:25:46Z")
I think a fair amount of what makes it offensive is that it is used indiscriminately to refer to Asians in no way related to Pakistan, and by racist people who _make_ an otherwise inoffensive word an obvious insult. I’ve known British Asians to use the expression, but only sarcastically and probably with a lot more sensitivity to its accuracy. It is, after all, only a word, and if Pakistanis were of a mind to there is no reason it can’t be nullified and ‘reclaimed’ in the same way the insult ‘queer’ has. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/15 "2003-08-18T15:39:58Z")
I too am curious about why it’s offensive. Like others here, I had never even heard the word used until people started criticizing the President for it. “-stan” is defined here: [http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopage/stan.htm](http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopage/stan.htm) > [@](#): > > As a generally accepted explanation, the suffix “stan” is an ancient Persian and/or Farsi word meaning country, nation, land, or place of, so, the country name of Afghanistan would then mean “homeland” of the Afghans, or place of the Afghans. -and- > [@](#): > > Pakistan > One of the not proven variations (or beliefs) about “stan” is in the name - Pakistan. It’s said that the modern name was formed in 1933 by combining the suffix “istan” from the existing territory of Baluchistan, with the first letters of Punjab, Afghanistan and Kasmir, thus PAKistan > > In reality, and verified by numerous sources, Pakistan is a composition of two words “PAK” and “ISTAN”. PAK is a word of Persian and Urdu and it means "Holy/ Pure/ Clean and “ISTAN” stands for “HOMELAND”. Then the true meanings come to “Homeland of Holy People”. When you look at the contxt of how we “properly” refer to citizens of that part of the world, it’s easy to see where the confusion would come from. After all, we sometimes call people from Afghanistan “Afghani”, (though more commonly, “Afghan”). So if a person didn’t know any better, he might wonder why we call people from Afghanistan “Afghan” or “Afghani”, but we call people from Pakistan by the full name of their country, “Pakistani”. There’s a tendency to want to call a group of people by a “collective” name. After all, we don’t call People from China “Chins” (at least we shouldn’t), we modify the name to “Chinese”. And we’re going to use the term “Punjabi” to mean “people of the Punjab”, it’s quite logical to use the word “Paki” to mean “people of the Pak”. But on the other hand, it’s entirely possible for a word to become insulting simply because people _intend_ for it to be insulting. I live in an area with a large population of Mexican immigrants, and I hear some white Americans say the word “Mexican” as if it were an epithet. It’s gotten to the point where some of us non-racists end up feeling uncomfortable using the word. Which is depressing. ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Vampire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Space\_Vampire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Vampire)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/16 "2003-08-18T15:48:29Z")
I’m an American and well-aware that “Paki” is offensive, but then I’m surprisingly up on Britishisms for somebody who doesn’t really know any Brits. ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/17 "2003-08-18T16:11:32Z")
“Paki” is mostly used in a derogatory sense in India. I have never heard the term “wog” as a reference to an Indian. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/18 "2003-08-18T16:37:48Z")
> [@](#): > > _Phase42_ > **I too am curious about why it’s offensive.** Because it’s been damaged. For much of its usage in the UK, the word “paki” has been preceded by the word “fucking”, or “dirty”. It’s also been used by the same people who damaged it to describe Indians, Sri Lankans, Bangladeshis, Nepalese, Tibetans, Afghans, etc. In Ireland I’ve even heard it used to describe Malaysians. It’s may not have been offensive originally, but it is now. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_B.Phart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Capt\_B.Phart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_B.Phart)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/19 "2003-08-18T16:59:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hammerbach \* > \*\*Yes, but they have an apparent agenda (to make Bush look ignorant). \*\* [cheap shot] “They” are obviously not afraid of a challenging assignment [/cheap shot] ---
**Author:** ![hammerbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hammerbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammerbach)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963/20 "2003-08-18T17:24:39Z")
OK… So far, we have replies from the UK, USA, India, Canada, and Australia… with the preponderance of Americans being either unaware of the term or of its offensive nature, and the others being aware of it… Anyone else out there? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-offensiveness-of-paki/195963.md?page=2)