Some Pakistani people I know here refer to both themselves and Pakistan (the country) as “Paki”.
It’s a world away from a BNP skinhead spitting “Fkin’ paki.”
Because I grew up in a culture where the latter example was more prevalent, I can never bring myself to say “Paki”, only “Pakistani.” I will say “indians” “subcontinentals” “pashtuns” and use the shortened adjective “subcon” if I’m being lazy. I rarely say “Asian” because it’s too vague - in the UK it means Pakstani/Indian/Bangladeshi, in Australia it means Chinese/Korean/Vietnamese etc.
Most Arabs here use “Asians” to describe Pakistanis and Indians. I don’t think I’ve ever heard an Arab use the term “Paki” at all - in a disparaging way or not - though they will (often) speak of subcontinental/south asian people in a disparaging way, they usually just say “Pakistanis and Indians.”
It seems that perhaps the more relevant question is, what do people in Pakistan think about it? One Bushism aside (I’ll lump it with his various verbal fumbles more because he should’ve been aware that some people would get pissy about it than because of stupidity on his part), every single use of the word “Paki” that I’ve ever heard has been from Pakistanis.
Istara: agreed on not being comfortable with using the term, regardless of whether Pakistanis use it themselves. I tend to stick with Pakistani, or Desi if I need to be less country-specific.
I was talking to an English friend of mine on Yahoo a while ago (she’s Indian), and she gave me a gentle rap over the knuckles for using the term “Paki”. In Australia, it is not offensive. I asked why it was offensive as it’s a mere shortening of the word (Aussie=Australian, so Paki=Pakistani. What’s the diff?). She said, “It just is”. Fair enough.
Are the Pakistani’s actually referred to that often in other countries? I don’t know that I’ve ever been in a situation here in the US where even a racist would have had need for a Pakistani slur.
Obviously. Why else would it have been described as an offensive term by people contributing to the thread hammerbach linked to?
To suggest that if you, as an American, haven’t felt the need to refer to Pakistanis much then the rest of the world wouldn’t need to either taps into a different stereotype altogether.
I guess I’m asking whether there is a vocal anti-Pakistani movement in the UK, and whether that is why they have a slur? Because there isn’t such a movemnt in the US, so it doesn’t surprise me that there just isn’t a anti-Pakistani slur.
There is a significant number of people living in the UK of South Asian extraction, yes, and a significant proportion of those people have migrated from Pakistan or can trace their origins to that country. People who don’t like them have found ways of making that clear, including the use of the word we’re discussing. I’m not sure those people deserve to be described as a “movement”. There isn’t any particular antagonism toward the country of Pakistan that I’m aware of.
FWIW, the word paki is used as a catch-all slur for any South Asian migrants, not just those from Pakistan, and that in itself is something that annoys British Pakistanis.
As far as I’m aware the Pakistani population in Australia is small, but they are two of the countries that play regular cricket matches against one another and mutual familiarity arises from that. Ditto New Zealand, South Africa, the West Indies*, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. Canadian Dopers will have to give their own explanation but I believe there is a significant number of South Asians there too.
India has its own reasons to have an uncomplimentary word for Pakistani people.
*a loose confederation of Caribbean countries who play cricket as one entity
I can confirm that here in south-central British Columbia, Canada, there is a substantial population of people of East Indian descent, and the term “Paki” is used as a slur.
[small aside] More common, though is the use of the term “Hindu” as a catch-all term for anyone of East Indian descent, regardless of their religion. Strange, especially when you consider that most of the East Indian population here are Sikhs, but I suppose anyone using disparaging terms is not too worried about the exact origin or religion of the group they are disparaging.
What Ultraviolet said. I have only ever heard the term “Paki” used as a slur, primarily in the context of the racist jokes my cousin used to love (he’s grown out of it now, thankfully).
In Toronto it’s utterly offensive. I rarely hear it anymore but when I was in school it was right up there with the worst words used by the worst kind of people.
My family considers itself Pakistani, and my sister will openly call herself “Paki.” Friends and other close people may use it too, but it is offensive for strangers to use it. Quite like the “n-word” that refers to people of a very dark skin color.
I believe the correct thing to do is to call a person “Pakistani,” “Indian,” etc., by their country of origin, or “South Asian.” We often refer to ourselves (South Asians) as “desis” (singular: “desi”; plural in Urdu/Hindi is "desiya(n) with a nasalized “n”). “Desi” means “one from the nation,” coming from the Hindi “desh” or “nation, country.” Hopefully, if I’m wrong somewhere here someone will come and correct me.