# Geographical origins of fruit and vegetables **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 16, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851 "2019-01-16T03:59:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/1 "2019-01-16T03:59:22Z")
I read a while back that the apple originated in the mountains of Central Asia, which is where its wild ancestor grows. With the wide variety of European-grown apples today, and the mental image of medieval monks brewing cider, I would have guessed at a European origin, had I given it consideration. I was also surprised to read recently that the carrot, another vegetable I would have guessed a European origin for, originated in Persia. I heard a fact on a game show the other day - something like that 75% of the vegetables grown in the world consisted of plants from just twelve species. Is this right? And, if so, what are the twelve? Also, what is the original geographic location of each of these plants, and the reason why each came to be so successful and important to human food production? In addition, while there may not be a known factual answer to this, how many plant species in the world are there that could be domesticated to create major viable food sources? Are there other lesser-cultivated or regional vegetables grown around the world that could one day fill a worldwide staple food role, such as rice or the potato? Could we use modern science technology to help domesticate other wild plants for food production (since domestication changes the plant, including increasing the size of the edible part)? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/2 "2019-01-16T05:05:49Z")
Not a direct answer to your question about 12 species, but you might be interested in the Columbian Exchange, specifically the important crops from the New World which quickly established themselves as staples in the Old World: potatoes, corn/maize, tomatoes. > **[Columbian exchange](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbian_exchange)** > > The Columbian exchange, also known as the Columbian interchange, was the widespread transfer of plants, animals, precious metals, commodities, culture, human populations, technology, diseases, and ideas between the New World (the Americas) in the Western Hemisphere, and the Old World (Afro-Eurasia) in the Eastern Hemisphere, in the late 15th and following centuries. It is named after the Italian explorer Christopher Columbus and is related to the European colonization and global trade followin... ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/3 "2019-01-16T05:22:21Z")
> **[World vegetable production by type 2021 | Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/264065/global-production-of-vegetables-by-type/)** > > This graph shows the global vegetable production in 2021, broken down by type. Tomatoes 177 Mil Tonnes Onions 93 Cucumber/Gherkins 80 Cabbage/Brassicas 71 Eggplants 51 Carrot/Turnips 42 Chilli/Peppers 34 Lettuce/Chicory 26 Spinach 26 Garlic 26 Pumpkin/Squash 26 Cauliflower/Broccoli 25 Different source but for tubers not included in vegetable list above > **[404 Error Page](https://www.fao.org/home/404)** > > 404 | FAO Cassava 152 Mil tonnes Sweet Potato 123 Potato 93 Yams 23 Aroids 8 > **[Fruit: world production by type 2021 | Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/264001/worldwide-production-of-fruit-by-variety/)** > > This statistic shows the world fruit production in 2021 in million metric tons, broken down by variety. Watermelons 117 Mil Tonnes Bananas 113 Apples 89 Grapes 77 Oranges 73 Mangoes 46 Plantains 35 Tangerines 32 Pears 27 Pineapples 25 Peaches/Nectarines 24 Lemons/Limes 17 Which are dwarfed by the production of grains: > **[Grain production worldwide by type 2022/23 | Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/263977/world-grain-production-by-type/)** > > This statistic shows the worldwide production of grain in 2021/22, sorted by type. Corn 1,033 Mil Tonnes Wheat 757 Rice 488 Barley 144 Oats 23 Rye 12 ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/4 "2019-01-16T09:33:29Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > [World vegetable production by type 2022 | Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/264065/global-production-of-vegetables-by-type/) > Tomatoes 177 Mil Tonnes > Onions 93 > Cucumber/Gherkins 80 > Cabbage/Brassicas 71 > Eggplants 51 > Carrot/Turnips 42 > Chilli/Peppers 34 > Lettuce/Chicory 26 > Spinach 26 > Garlic 26 > Pumpkin/Squash 26 > Cauliflower/Broccoli 25 Your list splits several vegetables that are in fact the same species (cabbage, cauliflower, and broccoli are all _Brassica oleracea_), and lumps together others that are not (e.g., carrots are _Daucus carota_ but turnips are _Brassica rapa_). ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/5 "2019-01-16T10:40:43Z")
Well that is true enough but that is precisely how they laid out the results in the URL. Probably bad form to deliberately misquote the cite, would’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/6 "2019-01-16T15:21:26Z")
There are thousands of species edible to humans, many of which are already domesticated to at least some degree, and any of which could presumably come to represent a greater proportion of the overall human diet. What sort of changes one might see in these species to make that happen is very difficult to say, given the wide variety of forms that some vegetable species take (the brassicas are the most famous, including kale, cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, and others, but the squashes show similar variety, with almost all of the edible squashes, from pumpkin to zucchini and many others, being the same species). As an aside, am I the only one surprised that the world grows twice as much corn as rice? ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/7 "2019-01-16T16:10:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > …As an aside, am I the only one surprised that the world grows twice as much corn as rice?.. …and more sweet potato than potato? (Me being parochial?) j ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/8 "2019-01-16T16:14:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > … > > As an aside, am I the only one surprised that the world grows twice as much corn as rice? A lot of corn is grown for animal feed. The second largest producer is China, and a majority of their production is for livestock feed - mainly pork. A large chunk of the US crop is also used for ethanol production. [https://www.nationalgeographic.com/people-and-culture/food/the-plate/2015/05/18/why-corn-not-rice-is-king-in-china/](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/people-and-culture/food/the-plate/2015/05/18/why-corn-not-rice-is-king-in-china/) > [@](#): > > In 1940, around two-thirds of China’s corn was used for food, while today, 60 percent goes to animal feed. Only 10 percent is currently consumed by people or used for seed—you can find novelties like corn-flavored candies and corncob-shaped ice cream treats at markets. KFC serves corn on the cob in China too. > > Another 30 percent of the crop is used in industrial processing to create goods like alcohol, sweeteners, and chemicals. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/9 "2019-01-16T16:57:07Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > Which are dwarfed by the production of grains: We are, to a large extent, a species of grass eaters. Barley, corn, millet, oats, rice, sorghum, sugarcane, and wheat are all part of the Poaceae family. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/10 "2019-01-16T17:31:05Z")
Yeah, I knew that corn was the primary animal feed in the US, but I would have thought that animal feed in Asia would be primarily rice-based, like human feed in Asia. I’d guess that the prevalence of sweet potatoes over white potatoes is probably mostly due to Africa. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/11 "2019-01-16T17:53:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yeah, I knew that corn was the primary animal feed in the US, but I would have thought that animal feed in Asia would be primarily rice-based, like human feed in Asia. > > I’d guess that the prevalence of sweet potatoes over white potatoes is probably mostly due to Africa. Hmmm - 2nd place through 5th. Turns out that China consumes a hell of a lot of sweet potatoes, 66% of global consumption: > **[Which Country Consumes the Most Sweet Potato in the World? - News and...](https://www.indexbox.io/blog/which-country-eats-the-most-sweet-potato-in-the-world/)** > > Global sweet potato consumption amounted to 105,578 thousand tons in 2015, waning by -1.0% against the previous year level. I’m assuming that the figures given above for yams are for true yams, not sweet potato varieties which are sold as “yams” in the US, as we have discussed before. True yams are a staple crop in West Africa. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/12 "2019-01-16T18:55:40Z")
Some genera have more than one important food species: - Cabbage/cauliflower/broccoli/brussels sprouts, turnips and mustard are all in the same genus. - various Squashes and pumpkin are all in the same genus. - Potato, tomato, eggplant are all in the same genus. - Almond, peach, prune are all in the same genus. - Sweet potato and morning glory are in the same genus. - peanut, soybean, garden pea etc. are all in the same subfamily. - wheat, oat, barley, rye are all in the same subfamily. - sugarcane, sorghum, corn are all in the same subfamily. - the wheat and sugar/corn subfamilies just mentioned, along with rice and bamboo, are all in Family Poaceae. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/13 "2019-01-16T19:55:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yeah, I knew that corn was the primary animal feed in the US, but I would have thought that animal feed in Asia would be primarily rice-based, like human feed in Asia. > > I’d guess that the prevalence of sweet potatoes over white potatoes is probably mostly due to Africa. One thing I’ve read is that turnips are regarded as animal feed in Europe. (At least historically, that may not be the case nowadays.) When the British blockade of Germany in WWI began producing food shortages it was known as the Turnip Winter (Steckrübenwinter) because people were so hungry they were reduced to eating turnips. Apparently having to eat turnips was seen as the equivalent of having to eat tree bark or grass. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/14 "2019-01-16T20:38:13Z")
While not fruits or vegetables, two of my favorite examples of widespread adoption of plants early on are: 1. Rice. Started in China. Reached Greece in the days of Alexander (at least). Even the name may have spread from S. India. 2. Coriander. Originated in SW Asia. The word appears in Mycenaean Greek. A wide belt of ancient people grew and traded in it. So a useful plant spreading throughout Eurasia-N. Africa by the first century is not surprising. What is surprising are the plants that could have spread more but didn’t. E.g., maize spread thru the Mississippi Valley, to SE & SW US and eventually to the NE US. But it never got to the Pacific NW despite being easily grown in the river valleys there. And there was a wide trading network which the grain and how to grow it could have traveled. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/15 "2019-01-16T20:47:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There are thousands of species edible to humans, many of which are already domesticated to at least some degree, and any of which could presumably come to represent a greater proportion of the overall human diet. What sort of changes one might see in these species to make that happen is very difficult to say, given the wide variety of forms that some vegetable species take (the brassicas are the most famous, including kale, cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, and others, but the squashes show similar variety, with almost all of the edible squashes, from pumpkin to zucchini and many others, being the same species). > > As an aside, am I the only one surprised that the world grows twice as much corn as rice? Corn is not corn on the cob. Corn is commercial sweetener, cattle feed, industrial starch. ethanol, and many other things. It can grow many places rice cannot (like dry interior plains). ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/16 "2019-01-16T20:50:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > One thing I’ve read is that turnips are regarded as animal feed in Europe. (At least historically, that may not be the case nowadays.) When the British blockade of Germany in WWI began producing food shortages it was known as the Turnip Winter (Steckrübenwinter) because people were so hungry they were reduced to eating turnips. Apparently having to eat turnips was seen as the equivalent of having to eat tree bark or grass. Yes, both turnips and beets are fodder, then and now. Neither closely resemble the vegetables you buy in the supermarket. I have a 50 lb bag of shredded dried beet pulp in my feed room right now – it is a common horse feed additive. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/17 "2019-01-16T20:54:38Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > s. > > - Almond, peach, prune are all in the same genus. Don’t leave out apricots and cherries from that list. All five sorts of produce are in the \*Prunus \*genus. (and don’t you mean plums instead of prune?) All citrus is pretty much classified as one big genus (_Citrus_) with a whole lot of hybrids. So lemons, navel oranges, tangerines, persian limes, key limes, pomelos, citron, Buddha’s hand, kumquats, calamondins, finger limes, grapefruits, Meyer lemons, kaffir limes and sour oranges are all the same genus. That said, it’s theorized that most of them, excepting the finger limes/Australian citrus, derive from a handful of core species- the citron, the mandarin orange, the pomelo and the kumquat and a sort of progenitor species- the papeda. Hybridizing all these together produced all the citrus we have today. > **[Citrus taxonomy | Core species and hybrids](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citrus_taxonomy#Core_species_and_hybrids)** > > Most commercial varieties are descended from one or more of the 'core species', citrons, mandarins, and pomelos, which share in common a complex floral anatomy that gives rise to more complex fruit. These core species, and to a lesser extent other citrus, have given rise to a wide variety of hybrids for which the naming is inconsistent. The same common names may be given to different species, citrus hybrids or mutations. For example, citrus with green fruit tend to be called 'limes' independent... ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/18 "2019-01-16T20:56:55Z")
Right, I know about all of the many products corn can be turned into (and you didn’t even mention oil). I was just assuming that, first, any grain could be used to make those things instead, and second, that the same factors that led to rice being favored over corn for direct human consumption in Asia would also lead to it being favored for transformative uses like animal feed, starch, ethanol, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/19 "2019-01-16T21:45:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > …the same factors that led to rice being favored over corn for direct human consumption in Asia would also lead to it being favored for transformative uses like animal feed, starch, ethanol, and so on. Take a look at this paper. Specifically page 226 (Or page 6 of 15) It presents the energy footprint of different crops. Rice has a rather high energy footprint. Combine that with water requirements and rice doesn’t look good for all the other applications. Besides all crops rely on government subsidies and Japan does grow rice for animal feed. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/20 "2019-01-16T22:22:34Z")
I think you forgot a link. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851.md?page=2)