# Geographical origins of fruit and vegetables **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 16, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851 "2019-01-16T03:59:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/21 "2019-01-17T00:50:36Z")
Yes sorry about that. Here is the link: [https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1626/pps.13.221](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1626/pps.13.221) ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/22 "2019-01-17T01:57:24Z")
Interesting and informative posts so far. But none of them seem to have answered the questions put forth in the OP. > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > I heard a fact on a game show the other day - something like that 75% of the vegetables grown in the world consisted of plants from just twelve species. Is this right? And, if so, what are the twelve? Also, what is the original geographic location of each of these plants, and the reason why each came to be so successful and important to human food production? The following ones were touched on. > [@](#): > > In addition, while there may not be a known factual answer to this, how many plant species in the world are there that could be domesticated to create major viable food sources? Are there other lesser-cultivated or regional vegetables grown around the world that could one day fill a worldwide staple food role, such as rice or the potato? Could we use modern science technology to help domesticate other wild plants for food production (since domestication changes the plant, including increasing the size of the edible part)? I have nothing to add as I am curious about many of the same questions. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/23 "2019-01-17T03:59:41Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > Take a look at this paper. Specifically page 226 > (Or page 6 of 15) > > It presents the energy footprint of different crops. Rice has a rather high energy footprint. Combine that with water requirements and rice doesn’t look good for all the other applications. > > Besides all crops rely on government subsidies and Japan does grow rice for animal feed. Rice doesn’t need that much water. One sees it growing in flooded paddies only because the water helps keep the weeds down. Rice grows fine on irrigated dry land, but if you’ve got a lot of water available, you’ll get a much higher yield per acre simply because weeds have a tough time growing in water. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/24 "2019-01-17T06:07:30Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > [World vegetable production by type 2022 | Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/264065/global-production-of-vegetables-by-type/) > Tomatoes 177 Mil Tonnes > Onions 93 > Cucumber/Gherkins 80 > Cabbage/Brassicas 71 > Eggplants 51 > Carrot/Turnips 42 > Chilli/Peppers 34 > Lettuce/Chicory 26 > Spinach 26 > Garlic 26 > Pumpkin/Squash 26 > Cauliflower/Broccoli 25 > Different source but for tubers not included in vegetable list above > [http://www.fao.org/wairdocs/tac/x5791e/x5791e0q.htm](http://www.fao.org/wairdocs/tac/x5791e/x5791e0q.htm) > Cassava 152 Mil tonnes > Sweet Potato 123 > Potato 93 > Yams 23 > Aroids 8 > [Fruit: world production by type 2022 | Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/264001/worldwide-production-of-fruit-by-variety/) > Watermelons 117 Mil Tonnes > Bananas 113 > Apples 89 > Grapes 77 > Oranges 73 > Mangoes 46 > Plantains 35 > Tangerines 32 > Pears 27 > Pineapples 25 > Peaches/Nectarines 24 > Lemons/Limes 17 > Which are dwarfed by the production of grains: > [Grain production worldwide by type 2023/24 | Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/263977/world-grain-production-by-type/) > Corn 1,033 Mil Tonnes > Wheat 757 > Rice 488 > Barley 144 > Oats 23 > Rye 12 I’ve put them in order of tonnage: Corn (Maize) 1,033 Mil Tonnes Wheat 757 Rice 488 Tomatoes 177 Cassava 152 Barley 144 Sweet Potato 123 Watermelons 117 Bananas 113 Potato 93 Onions 93 Apples 89 Cucumber/Gherkins 80 Grapes 77 Oranges 73 Cabbage/Brassicas 71 Eggplants 51 Mangoes 46 Carrot/Turnips 42 Plantains 35 Chilli/Peppers 34 Tangerines 32 Pears 27 Lettuce/Chicory 26 Spinach 26 Garlic 26 Pumpkin/Squash 26 Cauliflower/Broccoli 25 Pineapples 25 Peaches/Nectarines 24 Oats 23 Yams 23 Lemons/Limes 17 Rye 12 Aroids 8 Here they are again, roughly sorted into geographical regions (although some could appear in more than one category, and combined vegetable counts have not been split up and placed in their respective regions). I used Wikipedia to find out the geographical origin of each plant and where it was thought to have been first cultivated: NEAR EAST Wheat 757 - Fertile Crescent of the Near East Barley 144 - Wild barley ranges from North Africa and Crete in the west, to Tibet in the east, and was probably domesticated in Near East or Central Asia Grapes 77 - first cultivated in the Near East Oats 23 - Fertile Crescent of the Near East Rye 12 - central and eastern Turkey CENTRAL ASIA & PERSIA Apples 89 - central Asia, but with center of diversity in eastern Turkey Carrot/Turnips 42 - While the wild carrot is native to Europe and southwestern Asia, studies have shown single origin of domestic carrot in Central Asia, probably Persia; Turnips probably western Asia. Garlic 26 - native to Central Asia and northeastern Iran Spinach 26 - Persia EAST ASIA Rice 488 - thought to have been first domesticated in China Oranges 73 - east Asia Pears 27 - While the genus is thought to have originated in present-day Western China, it seems that there are also wild sub-species in central and eastern Europe and southwest Asia which have been cultivated. Peaches/Nectarines 24 - Northwest China Lemons/Limes 17 - thought to have first grown in Assam (a region in northeast India), northern Burma or China; Wild limes are believed to have first grown in Indonesia or Southeast Asia SOUTH-EAST ASIA & OCEANIA Bananas 113 - Southeast Asia and Papua New Guinea Plantains 35 - Southeast Asia, Oceania and Northern Australia SOUTH ASIA Cucumber/Gherkins 80 - India Eggplants 51 - probably two independent domestications: one in South Asia, and one in East Asia Mangoes 46 - South Asia AFRICA Watermelons 117 - Africa Lettuce/Chicory 26 - Lettuce in ancient Egypt; chicory in Europe EUROPE Cabbage/Brassicas 71 - Europe Cauliflower/Broccoli 25 - both northern Mediterranean NORTH AMERICA Corn (Maize) 1,033 - Mesoamerica Sweet Potato 123 - either Central or South America Chilli/Peppers 34 - Chilli from northeastern Mexico; Peppers from South Asia and Southeast Asia. Pumpkin/Squash 26 - Pumpkin in North America (northeastern Mexico and southern United States); Squash in Andes and Mesoamerica. SOUTH AMERICA Tomatoes 177 - western South America Cassava 152 - South America, probably west-central Brazil Potato 93 - southern Peru and extreme northwestern Bolivia Pineapples 25 - South America, between southern Brazil and Paraguay OTHER Onions 93 - Unknown, probably Asia Tangerines 32 - hybrid Yams 23 - native to Africa, Asia, and the Americas Aroids 8 - various There are a few surprises to me, such as: oranges, lemons and limes from eastern Asia (I would have guessed Mediterranean or Near East); cucumbers from India; pineapples from southern Brazil/Paraguay (would probably have guessed Caribbean); lettuce from ancient Egypt. Here’s more from [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettuce#History) on the ancient Egyptians’ love of lettuce, which might of interest to the Lettuce Marketing Board: > [@](#): > > Lettuce was considered a sacred plant of the reproduction god Min, and it was carried during his festivals and placed near his images. The plant was thought to help the god “perform the sexual act untiringly.” Its use in religious ceremonies resulted in the creation of many images in tombs and wall paintings. I am also mildly unnerved to discover that there are so many cucumbers in the world - 13th most produced plant (along with gherkins). :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/25 "2019-01-17T07:31:38Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > In addition, while there may not be a known factual answer to this, how many plant species in the world are there that could be domesticated to create major viable food sources? Are there other lesser-cultivated or regional vegetables grown around the world that could one day fill a worldwide staple food role, such as rice or the potato? Could we use modern science technology to help domesticate other wild plants for food production (since domestication changes the plant, including increasing the size of the edible part)? Duckweed is the up and coming crop of the future. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/26 "2019-01-17T07:38:09Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > Rice doesn’t need that much water. One sees it growing in flooded paddies only because the water helps keep the weeds down. It’s true that rice doesn’t need more water than other cereals and that growing in paddies keeps weeds down. But the major agronomic need for water is insulation. Rice stops growing around 13C (60F) and having 30-45cm of water keeps the temperature around the tiller up and the plant grows round the clock. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/27 "2019-01-17T07:52:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > One thing I’ve read is that turnips are regarded as animal feed in Europe. (At least historically, that may not be the case nowadays.) Naah, I’ve got historical recipes for quite classy turnip dishes. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/28 "2019-01-17T07:57:06Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > But it never got to the Pacific NW despite being easily grown in the river valleys there. And there was a wide trading network which the grain and how to grow it could have traveled. But the people in the PNW weren’t growing _anything_, and didn’t need to. The places maize got to at the endpoints, it merely replaced the Eastern Agricultural Complex with the Three Sisters crops, it didn’t involve an entire lifeway change (at least initially, obviously it then led to the population explosion that gives you Cahokia etc ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/29 "2019-01-17T08:12:01Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > and the reason why each came to be so successful and important to human food production? The species/varieties most productive, most reliable yielding, the most tolerant of climate and pests will predominate over all others until food security esp. in terms of calories becomes assured. The casebook example. The Irish Potato famine and the Lumper variety. The potato was introduced to Ireland around 1600 or a bit after from seed stock via Spain from the New World. Progressively became the staple foodstuff. Due to favourable climate and soil Irish potatoes were higher quality and higher yielding than from England up to the 1800s. The Lumper variety came from Scotland because it had a higher yield and was more robust. In Ireland the Lumper was even more productive yielding 30% more, thriving on poorer soils and being a much more reliable crop. Most of the increased yield was due to higher water content rather than more starches/calories. Consequently it was considered an inferior type though a proportion of the lower quality reputation was how well it was stored and that the poor couldn’t afford to throw away second quality tubers. The locals preferred consuming the lower yielding, higher starch varieties like Cup and Apple but population pressures and the need to utilise all available land made the yield and reliability of Lumper the go to variety. Southern Ireland counties became almost monocultures . All varieties of potato are vulnerable to infection by the blight but Lumper seemed more so and the preconditions for the famine in the 1840s were established. ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/30 "2019-01-17T11:23:22Z")
This website, [http://www.foodtimeline.org/](http://www.foodtimeline.org/), has links and comments on what the first foods were and where they came from. Here’s the start of the timeline: water & ice---------------- salt---------------- oysters, scallops, mussels & mollusks---------------- squid, calamari & octopus---------------- insects---------------- fish & frogs---------------- mushrooms & greens---------------- bear, venison & horsemeat ---------------- eggs & marrow bones---------------- rice & millet---------------- emmer grain–17,000BC— einkorn grain–16,000BC— almonds–10,000BC— cherries—10,000BC— wheat —8,000BC— American bison—8,000BC— ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/31 "2019-01-17T11:35:56Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > Besides all crops rely on government subsidies. Crops don’t rely on subsidies, people who plant do. And this cash support largess occurs in some countries, but not all. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/32 "2019-01-17T12:02:40Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > It’s true that rice doesn’t need more water than other cereals and that growing in paddies keeps weeds down. But the major agronomic need for water is insulation. Rice stops growing around 13C (60F) and having 30-45cm of water keeps the temperature around the tiller up and the plant grows round the clock. Rice originates from the tropics, and most rice is sill grown there. The temperature in the tropics rarely, if ever, goes down so low. Optimal photosynthetic rate for rice occurs at 30-35 C. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/33 "2019-01-17T12:06:19Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > Corn 1,033 Mil Tonnes > Wheat 757 > Rice 488 > Barley 144 > Oats 23 > Rye 12 These lists aren’t comprehensive. For instance, it doesn’t list either [millet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millet#Production) or [sorghum](http://www.factfish.com/statistic/sorghum%2C%20production%20quantity), where 2016 production was more than the 2017 oats and rye figures given. So there might be other produce gaps too. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/34 "2019-01-17T16:47:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > These lists aren’t comprehensive. For instance, it doesn’t list either [millet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millet#Production) or [sorghum](http://www.factfish.com/statistic/sorghum%2C%20production%20quantity), where 2016 production was more than the 2017 oats and rye figures given. So there might be other produce gaps too. Indeed, also missing was [soybeans](http://www.factfish.com/statistic/soybeans%2C%20production%20quantity), which, at 334 Mtonnes, should go in between rice and barley. It’s mostly grown for animal feed, I believe. Not only that, but the figures above for tubers (potatoes, yams, etc.) were only for those from developing countries, not all countries. Worldwide production of [potatoes](http://www.factfish.com/statistic/potatoes%2C%20production%20quantity) was 376 M tonnes, which puts it above soybeans. And I’m seeing a different production quantity (277 M tonnes) for [cassava](http://www.factfish.com/statistic/cassava%2C%20production%20quantity), too. Not sure what the deal is there, since it’s pretty much only grown in developing countries. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/35 "2019-01-17T20:16:35Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Not sure what the deal is there, since it’s pretty much only grown in developing countries. It’s \*the \*main staple for 800 million people, and is \*very \*productive in a yield/hectare sense. Also, some is grown for export to China not just local consumption. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/36 "2019-01-17T21:25:38Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > Rice originates from the tropics, and most rice is sill grown there. The temperature in the tropics rarely, if ever, goes down so low. Optimal photosynthetic rate for rice occurs at 30-35 C. This is true, but coming from a family which grows quite a lot of rice in an area situated 35 deg South and producing the highest yielding rice crops in the world we are acutely aware of the effect of max and min summer temperatures. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/37 "2019-01-18T00:31:38Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It’s \*the \*main staple for 800 million people, and is \*very \*productive in a yield/hectare sense. Also, some is grown for export to China not just local consumption. My uncertainty was the discrepancy in the production numbers between two sources. True, they were for different years, but only by one year. I wouldn’t expect that big of change from one year to the next unless there was a drought in the major production area or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/38 "2019-01-18T03:55:55Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > This is true, but coming from a family which grows quite a lot of rice in an area situated 35 deg South and producing the highest yielding rice crops in the world we are acutely aware of the effect of max and min summer temperatures. I had a post all ready to go, complete with cites from primary sources about how rice likes the hot weather, when I realized we were coming at it from opposite directions. I thought you said that rice growth shuts down when the temperatures _exceed_ 13°C when what you were really saying was that rice growth stops when temperatures _fall below_ 13°C. Carry on! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851/39 "2019-01-18T09:15:09Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > My uncertainty was the discrepancy in the production numbers between two sources. Ok, I get you now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/geographical-origins-of-fruit-and-vegetables/827851.md?page=1)