# George Allen and the deer head? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 27, 2006, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389 "2006-09-27T17:40:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/1 "2006-09-27T17:40:51Z")
[Here](http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/09/27/allen_deerhead/) is the article. Sorry, it’s Salon, and if you aren’t a subscriber, you have to view a stupid advert for a few moments to read. To put it plainly: George “macaca” Allen has been accused of putting the severed head of a deer in the mailbox of an African American family, for the purposes of comitting a racial hate crime (a.k.a. a “college prank”). Only one witness claims to know the motivation. Only one other individual is still living who can corroborate it. That Allen used racial epithets in college would hardly be surprising given his recent idiocy, but it’s not so damning in itself if he showed clear evidence of reformation. However, the macabre, somewhat Godfatheresque prank with the deer head, IMO, would seem to indicate some kind of profound pathology, and I’m not sure people “get over” things like that. Not sure where to put this, and I’m not super-confident about the sources, but there it is. Seems Allen, in addition to being a bigot with foot-in-mouth disease, is also possibly a grade-A sicko. You be the judge. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/2 "2006-09-27T17:43:38Z")
Amazing this is coming out now, and not during his earlier Senate run, nor during his earlier state political races. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/3 "2006-09-27T17:50:52Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Amazing this is coming out now, and not during his earlier Senate run, nor during his earlier state political races. [/QUOTE] Were there racial incidents in those runs to trigger people to look into his past for racism like the current ‘macaca’ incident? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/4 "2006-09-27T17:54:49Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] Were there racial incidents in those runs to trigger people to look into his past for racism like the current ‘macaca’ incident? [/QUOTE] According to Shelton, [yes](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,215588,00.html): > [@](#): > > Shelton described himself as an independent who has supported Democratic and Republican candidates and has no political reason to attack Allen. He said he regretted that he had not spoken against Allen in the early 1980s, when he was first entering politics, and began writing down his recollections as Allen’s career “ascended to heights I never could have imagined.” > > He said he came forward to [Salon.com](http://Salon.com) because of Allen’s mention as a 2008 presidential candidate and because of the Macaca incident. > > “When I saw the look in his eye in that camera and using the word ‘macaca,’ it just brought back the bullying way I knew from George back then,” Shelton said. > > Other Allen teammates rushed to his defense, dismissing Shelton’s claims. > > Charlie Hale of Abingdon, a college roommate of Shelton’s, said Shelton had told him in a weekend e-mail he “was going to break some story.” Hale said in a telephone interview he had never heard those clams about Allen. > > Hale said he and Allen often hunted together, and no one ever heard about the deer head incident. “There was not even a rumor on the team,” said Hale, 52, an Allen campaign volunteer. > > Doug Jones, who lived with Shelton, also dismissed the charges. “I never heard George Allen use any racially disparaging word nor did I ever witness or hear about him acting in a racially insensitive manner,” Jones said. Claims and counter-claims. Difficult to know who to believe. Downright bizarre if true, though. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/5 "2006-09-27T17:55:50Z")
Gah! By “yes” I mean the “macaca” incident was said to be the precipitating event. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/6 "2006-09-27T18:01:29Z")
“Out” it nevertheless appears to be. ABC and FOX are reporting on his denial. I bet his campaign manager’s briefcase has Tums or Maalox tablets in the 3rd pocket. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/7 "2006-09-27T18:04:40Z")
Interesting. On a hunch I did a Google search: ““George Allen” bully”. The [first](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/08/16/gop-senator-george-allen_n_27382.html) hit references Allen’s sister’s book. A selected quote: > [@](#): > > Referring to George’s habit of terrorizing a Green Bay Packer fan in their neighborhood, Jennifer wrote that the fan’s mailbox often “lay smashed in the street, a casualty of my brothers’ drive-by to school in the morning. George would swerve his Mach II Mustang while Gregory held a baseball bat out the window to clear the mailbox off its post. . . . Lately, the Packers fan had resorted to stapling a Kleenex box to the mailbox post to receive his mail. George’s red Mustang screeched up beside us, the Packers fan’s Kleenex mailbox speared on the antenna.” Does he have a thing for mailboxes? Again, don’t know what to think, but Allen does look, from these accounts, like a fairly run-of-the-mill sociopath. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/8 "2006-09-27T18:07:55Z")
My take on this is Allen has no one to blame but himself. I’m no fan of bringing up college-age stuff that politicians may or may not have done, but he looked right into the camera and called that guy “Macacca”. What a dumb-ass thing to do. No one would be talking about this stuff if he hadn’t been such an idiot in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/9 "2006-09-27T18:18:23Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] Does he have a thing for mailboxes? [/QUOTE] Or federal felonies in general? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/10 "2006-09-27T18:24:16Z")
Trying to tar him as racist will backfire. If anything, it will engergize his base. Sad, but true. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/11 "2006-09-27T18:24:23Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Amazing this is coming out now, and not during his earlier Senate run, nor during his earlier state political races. [/QUOTE] George W Bush’s DUI wasn’t brought out until the very end of the 2000 campaign. Never came out during the governor runs. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/12 "2006-09-27T18:27:43Z")
[QUOTE=dalej42] George W Bush’s DUI wasn’t brought out until the very end of the 2000 campaign. Never came out during the governor runs. [/QUOTE] That’s because a DUI is a badge of honor in Texas. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/13 "2006-09-27T18:31:05Z")
[QUOTE=An Arky] Trying to tar him as racist will backfire. If anything, it will engergize his base. Sad, but true. [/QUOTE] I think every racist is already voting Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/14 "2006-09-27T18:34:20Z")
[QUOTE=An Arky] Trying to tar him as racist will backfire. If anything, it will engergize his base. Sad, but true. [/QUOTE] I thought they’d all give up on him because he’s a Jew. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/15 "2006-09-27T18:53:57Z")
If this deer’s head thing turns out to be solid, I’d just be afraid of the guy, even if he had no idea whose mailbox he stuffed the thing in. Even ignoring the racial crap, that’s disturbing behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/16 "2006-09-27T19:17:10Z")
[QUOTE=An Arky] Trying to tar him as racist will backfire. If anything, it will engergize his base. Sad, but true. [/QUOTE] If you are implying that it is because Virginia is racist, you are DEAD wrong and insulting. It may fire up his base if they can bring themselves to believe, as apparently Bricker is working on trying to, that all these accusations are false. But let’s face facts here: -the reason this hasn’t come up before is stated outright and quite obvious: first macaca, and then Allen’s bold declaration that he had NEVER used the word and that it wasn’t part of his vocabulary. That had never been a big issue before, and that claim had never stood out there. People first came forward because they couldn’t believe Allen was going to get away with such a whopper. When Allen’s people started viciously attacking those witnesses, other people came forward because they felt it was the right thing to do to defend those people against Allen (who, remember, according to them KNOWS that he is lying and yet is still willing to savage people who are telling the truth) -There are now at least 5 different named people all attesting to different events which fit the same pattern: Allen’s use of the word: not just the use, but the use to denigrate African Americans. In one instance, he supposedly tells people he expects to be disappointed that Doug Wilder (the first African America Governor ever) won that “don’t worry, this doesn’t mean the \*\*\*\*\*\*s are taking over!” -On top of the people coming out to say it directly, Larry Sabato, an until now very highly respected political commentator says that he is convinced that they are telling the truth, based on people he trusts telling him about Allen in the 70s. Of course this has made Sabato a huge target, but by all accounts, he’s a very trustworthy guy who wouldn’t put his career on the line for a long shot like Webb and wouldn’t say such things unless he thought they were sure to be true and that people like Shelton were being demonized unfairly. -While many on the right claim that each one of the witness events have been rebutted, their claims are paper thin. They mostly consist of close Allen friends saying “oh, gasp, George would never say something like that.” His teammates that are supporting him are all on his campaign or big donors, and even their supposed contradictions aren’t. For instance, that Allen came to UVA to be closer to his parents, as they claim, does NOT preclude Allen BRAGGING about it being for racist reasons. A nickname existing prior to Allen coming does NOT preclude Allen from then being the one to really take to it and reference a racist connection. -The deer head story has now been corroborated as having happened by the roomate of the one dead participant. Given than Allen has claimed that they event never happened, his smear campaign against his accusers has just hit a HUGE pothole. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/17 "2006-09-27T19:22:51Z")
What about this sister’s book? I’ve never heard of this before, nada, and given the rather ugly picture she paints of her brother, I’m wondering if she has some credibility issues that maybe have kept a lid on the story? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/18 "2006-09-27T19:46:41Z")
I think it’s mostly just old news, plus that siblings who don’t like you is generally looked at as a teir-two story: worth maybe a mention in biographical pieces, but nothing immediate and headline grabbing. It certainly plays into painting an overall picture of a sadistic bully. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/19 "2006-09-27T20:04:58Z")
The sister’s book lists a litany of brutal behavior by George including throwing a sibling through a sliding glass door, dragging her by her hair across the house and breaking his brother’s collar bone. She later recanted the book and claimed she was in error in her memories. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/20 "2006-09-27T20:09:20Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] -There are now at least 5 different named people all attesting to different events which fit the same pattern: Allen’s use of the word: not just the use, but the use to denigrate African Americans. In one instance, he supposedly tells people he expects to be disappointed that Doug Wilder (the first African America Governor ever) won that “don’t worry, this doesn’t mean the \*\*\*\*\*\*s are taking over!” [/QUOTE] Can you point me toward those accounts? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389.md?page=2)