# George Allen and the deer head? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 27, 2006, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389 "2006-09-27T17:40:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/21 "2006-09-27T20:25:08Z")
[Allen wasn’t in North Carolina recently, was he?](http://wfmynews2.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=54884) ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/22 "2006-09-27T21:07:05Z")
Shelton (and two anonymous others confirming part of what he says): Claimed that Allen liked to call him Wizard because Shelton shared the name of a KKK wizard, that allen used the n word a lot, that he said he came to UVA because in virginia the ns knew their place, deer head story: > **[Teammates: Allen used "N-word" in college](https://www.salon.com/2006/09/25/allen_football/)** > > Members of Sen. George Allen's college football team remember man with racist attitudes at ease using racial slurs Taylor, says Allen told him that he won’t eat turtles because only n’s eat turtles: > **[Senator Accused of Using Racially Charged Term (Published 2006)](https://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/25/washington/26allencnd.html?_r=1&hp&ex=1159243200&en=4060f10fe26a0b7e&ei=5094&partner=homepage&oref=slogin)** > > Two acquaintances of Senator George Allen of Virginia said today that he had used racially inflammatory language in the 1970’s and 1980’s. George Allen denies, with statements from other teammates trying to contradict Shelton’s story, but not quite doing it: [http://www.georgeallen.com/site/apps/nl/content2.asp?c=hgITL5PKJtH&b=1612661&ct=2954671](http://www.georgeallen.com/site/apps/nl/content2.asp?c=hgITL5PKJtH&b=1612661&ct=2954671) Larry Sabato defends the two witnesses against attacks on Hardball, saying that whether or not Allen denies using the word, he used it (Sabato later clarifies that hasn’t heard it first hand, but heard it from people he says he trusts back in the 70s): [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G70HGoFV2Ps) Thompson: former Republican consultant who quit the party in disgust a while ago: [http://www.capitolhillblue.com/content/2006/09/george\_allens\_r.html](http://www.capitolhillblue.com/content/2006/09/george_allens_r.html) His defense of his comments: [http://www.blueridgemuse.com/muse2/2006/09/lies\_damn\_lies\_and\_politicians.html](http://www.blueridgemuse.com/muse2/2006/09/lies_damn_lies_and_politicians.html) Hawkins: says Allen used the word about one of the Redskins: > **[New Report That Senator Uttered Slurs (Published 2006)](https://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/27/us/politics/27allen.html)** > > Another acquaintance of Senator George Allen said Tuesday that she heard him use an racial slur, contradicting a statement he made on Monday. Beam: again with the deer head story, comfirming it, albiet just that a deer in mailbox event happened without knowledge of racial overtones confirmed by a former roomate of one of the participants (now deceased): [http://www.tnr.com/blog/theplank?pid=41592](http://www.tnr.com/blog/theplank?pid=41592) Allen has accused all of these people of being partisan Democrats out to get him and that they are all part of the Webb campaign. The evidence for that seems slim: they claim that Shelton’s wife said that “they said not to talk to FOXnews” implying that there is some they giving Shelton advice. Also, Thompson knows and went to a journalism conference with a consultant that has done work for Webb. That seems to be the current extent of the conspiracy accusations. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/23 "2006-09-27T21:11:27Z")
Oh, and these are just the major ones. Note that there are LOT of other stories floating around as well, including that Allen was suspended for writing racial slurs on his high school (his suspension and the fact that slurs were written there seem to be true, but the pieces of the claim aren’t proven) and worse stuff. Some may just be hangers on, but there are number that seem to be from people willing to put their names to the accusation as well as offer corroboration. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/24 "2006-09-27T21:38:10Z")
The childhood stuff does seem to have been overblown considerably by the _Huffington Post_, and, indeed, it appears Allen’s sister did [qualify](http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1961584&page=3) her statements, though I’m not sure if I can read her explanations as “recanting”. What the Hell does “novelization of the past” mean, anyway? I’m inclined to write her off as a flake. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/25 "2006-09-27T21:47:10Z")
Like I said: tell alls by siblings generally are treated at arm’s length unless they have something really provable and damning in them. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/26 "2006-09-27T21:52:38Z")
Either George Allen hunts really small does - or the oversized mailbox belonged to the Hill family. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/27 "2006-09-27T21:58:58Z")
Well, as **Ivylass** ’s link indicates, a deer’s head can be stuffed in a mailbox. And I can’t believe the let the kid off with just a letter of apology. Get him into counseling, for crying out loud. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/28 "2006-09-27T22:35:31Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] . . .Doug Wilder (the first African America Governor ever) [/QUOTE] Pointless nitpick, but Wilder was the first elected African-American governor ever. The first African-American governor was Gov. P.B.S. Pinchback, of Louisiana. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/29 "2006-09-27T22:56:29Z")
Ah, yes. In fact, someone brought that point up to me earlier and I had already forgotten to clarify. Pinchback was the first. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/30 "2006-09-27T22:57:53Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] If you are implying that it is because Virginia is racist, you are DEAD wrong and insulting. It may fire up his base if they can bring themselves to believe, as apparently Bricker is working on trying to, that all these accusations are false. [/QUOTE] I was implying mostly that his base wouldn’t believe it. But if you think there aren’t plenty of racists in Virginia, you’re dead naive. Thankfully, Virginia is an increasingly diverse state and the old-line racism is dwindling more each day. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2006, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/31 "2006-09-27T23:56:39Z")
I don’t think Virginia is notable for its racism. No Northern state has elected an African American Governor. Virginia is FAR more racially integrated than most northern states (i.e. mixed race neighborhoods as opposed to flat out white/black neighborhoods). ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/32 "2006-09-28T00:02:52Z")
I agree that today, we’re waaay better off in that regard. However, Virginia does have a bit of an unfortunate not-so-distant history. Like [W.A. Plecker](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Ashby_Plecker), for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/33 "2006-09-28T03:04:49Z")
How would you even FIT a deer’s head into your average mailbox anyways? Especially without making a terrible mess that a person would notice on approaching said mailbox? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/34 "2006-09-28T03:20:53Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] How would you even FIT a deer’s head into your average mailbox anyways? Especially without making a terrible mess that a person would notice on approaching said mailbox? [/QUOTE] A lot of us out in rural and exurban districts use the #3 sized mail box with interior dimensions of 22 1/2" x 8" x 11 1/2". That would hold the head of a doe or a four-point buck pretty easily (and a larger buck if the antlers were sawn off. As to how messy it was: I doubt that a person perpetrating such a prank would be very concerned about the mess–the owner still has to clean it up regardless of the amount of warning they receive. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/35 "2006-09-28T03:24:52Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] A lot of us out in rural and exurban districts use the #3 sized mail box with interior dimensions of 22 1/2" x 8" x 11 1/2". That would hold the head of a doe or a four-point buck pretty easily (and a larger buck if the antlers were sawn off. As to how messy it was: I doubt that a person perpetrating such a prank would be very concerned about the mess–the owner still has to clean it up regardless of the amount of warning they receive. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but when I said “mess” I meant, how could the owner NOT know until they opened it up-surely they’d see the blood everywhere? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/36 "2006-09-28T03:29:38Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Yeah, but when I said “mess” I meant, how could the owner NOT know until they opened it up-surely they’d see the blood everywhere? [/QUOTE] Was there some telling of the story that indicated they did not see the blood? If so, I missed it. If you go out for the mail and see a pool of blood in front of the box with more dripping from the corners, you still have to open the box. And a deer that had already died and been decapitated somewhere else might have had most of the blood drained before arriving at the mailbox. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/37 "2006-09-28T04:06:57Z")
Without a heart to pump blood, blood doesn’t generally flow very well after a decapitation. Most of the large volume comes out almost right away, and a lot of the rest permanently pools in the tissues, without nothing to push it out. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/38 "2006-09-28T04:09:12Z")
As far as making a deer hear “fit” in a mailbox – I imagine if you can just shove the neck into the box far enough that the rest of the head doesn’t fall out – that would count. It might also be that if the box door opened out and down, the open door would function as a shelf supporting part of the head. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/39 "2006-09-28T04:34:58Z")
How the fuck did this schmuck get elected in the first place? Was he running against a gay Nazi? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389/40 "2006-09-28T04:47:50Z")
[QUOTE=Wolfian] How the fuck did this schmuck get elected in the first place? Was he running against a gay Nazi? [/QUOTE] He was running against Chuck Robb who was caught up in scandal involving allegations of infidelity and cocain use. I grew up in VA and in fact and a FFV (First Family of Virginia, for you new comers). VA has a long and troubling history of racism and once you get out of northern VA is still very much the south with all that entails both good and bad. What really bugs me about Allen is that he’s always wearing his confederate flag pin and talking about southern heritage and the prick isn’t even from VA, he’s from California. I read one article where someone said he acted more like a Virginian than the people who grew up in Virginia. What a prick, seems like it’s finally catching up to him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-allen-and-the-deer-head/374389.md?page=3)