# George Bush shut the fuck up! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 21, 2005, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162 "2005-02-21T13:18:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/61 "2005-02-22T07:51:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I agree that you didn’t make it up. You read it here. Just because this is really sticking in my craw… I read about it elsewhere and in many publications, I just don’t have all the cites. That’s why I tried to do a search for OSP, because I think I’ve made one or two posts where I collected links. These were just the ones I found. And, more importantly, I do not make things up. /nitpick. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/62 "2005-02-22T11:32:29Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > And, more importantly, I do not make things up. I have to agree. You and I seldom see eye-to-eye, but you’re nothing if not honest. I can understand why you would bristle at such a suggestion. And I just wanted you to know that, even among your opposition, there are those who find such a charge to be ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/63 "2005-02-22T13:00:57Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Just because this is really sticking in my craw… > > I read about it elsewhere and in many publications, I just don’t have all the cites. That’s why I tried to do a search for OSP, because I think I’ve made one or two posts where I collected links. These were just the ones I found. > > And, more importantly, I do not make things up. > > /nitpick. Fair enough, and I’m sorry I impugned your honesty. However, in debate, a gratuitous assertion may be equally gratuitously denied. When you assert a claim without supporting citation to fact, your opponent may simply summarily deny it. It was that process, and the reasoning behind that rule, that I was trying to convey. I didn’t mean to literally suggest that you were being dishonest - just that if you make a self-serving claim with no cites, there is no reason for your audience to accept it. I probably should have been clearer that I was illustrating that principle, and not intending to call you a liar. I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/64 "2005-02-22T13:10:46Z")
> [@Banquet Bear](#): > > …this report, from journalist Seymor Hersh, contains many references to an “unamed Pentagon Advisor.” If you have any evidence that Seymor Hersh has invented anonymous sources before, feel free, however, I believe that generally he has been found to be more than reliable. Well, there was Hersh’s report that JFK had established a half-million dollar trust fund for Marilyn Monroe’s mother - an assertion he later withdrew after it turned out to be slightly flawed, in the sense of being a complete fabrication. [Link](http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,987122,00.html) And then there’s the _Vanity Fair_ article on Hersh, saying he’s known to play “fast and loose” with the facts. [Link](http://archive.salon.com/media/1997/10/13hersh.html) Hardly a right-wing source, I might add. I’m just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/65 "2005-02-22T15:48:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have researched and educated myself, and my opinion hasn’t changed No surprise there. The facts do conflict with your desired worldview. > [@](#): > > so I’m afraid you’re going to have to actually produce some real citations. The ocean is wet. Gonna demand a cite for that, too? You’re way behind on the facts already, pal, per your own admission. The OSP was well-publicized at the time, in the mainstream media you ignored or, **december** like, filtered out before it could impinge on your consciousness. It was discussed heavily on this board, too. It does you no good to pretend that the fault for your ignorance is someone else’s for not spoonfeeding you. You know by now that Rumsfeld set up a parallel organization. If you want to continue to deny that its purpose was to feed the desired conclusions to the administration decisionmakers, it’s up to you to propose an alternative, plausible purpose for you . But you haven’t, and we all know you can’t. Now grow the fuck up and take a sincere interest in the world of fact, as already suggested. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/66 "2005-02-22T15:52:46Z")
[/quote] However, in debate, a gratuitous assertion may be equally gratuitously denied. [/quote] You know now that the assertion was not gratuitous. Your continued objecting to it, however, given your admission that you now know the facts, _is_ gratuitous. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/67 "2005-02-22T16:08:51Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I have to agree. You and I seldom see eye-to-eye, but you’re nothing if not honest. I can understand why you would bristle at such a suggestion. And I just wanted you to know that, even among your opposition, there are those who find such a charge to be ridiculous. Thank you **Lib** , means a lot to me. Namaste. **Bricker** : Apology accepted, think nothing of it. If I get a free minute or five in the next few days I’ll see if I can’t hunt down better cites. I know I used to have 'em… ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/68 "2005-02-22T16:46:19Z")
> [@Banquet Bear](#): > > …you see, thats the problem, over here in little New Zealand we don’t get a chance to vote for President Bush or not. Yet, Bush chooses to speak for us. And the people of Iraq. And for the people of Iran, and North Korea, and Australia, and Samoa. Whenever he talks about freedom and ridding the world of tyranny, and the Axis of Evil and bringing democracy to the world, he’s talking about us. And if he decides that a country is worthy of invasion, there is little we can do to stop him. Well, I’m not to sure about Samoa, but in Australia people can sure speak for themselves as they can elect whoever they want to. Now Iran and NK? Well, in NK only Kim Jung speaks for his people. And frankly, GW has as much right to speak for those people as that maniac does. I’ve never figured this out: Why does a dictator have more right to speak for ‘his’ people than someone half way around the world? People are people no matter what the lines on a map say and where they live. Also, do you think telling someone to ‘shut the fuck up’ is really going to persuade them that they should rethink their actions? No, you end up being marginalized like Canada has done to itself. Any influence we have had with the US is long gone. I think a majority of Canadians hate the US. Most think Americans are stupid and want to steal Canada’s water or some other silly thing. Some think it is only a matter of time before the tanks cross the border. I can’t believe some of the shit I’ve heard. I’ve never met a people who think they are so superior and are, in fact, so pathetic because of it. Do we, as Canadians, think that this attitude doesn’t show when we deal with the US? Why would they bother even asking our opinion? This is not to say I agree, or disagree, with GW, but there is a difference between being a friend who disagrees and an insulting asshole who whines like a baby when they don’t get their own way. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/69 "2005-02-22T17:24:32Z")
Great posts **Banquet Bear**. As far as the partisan crap, is it possible to dislike the president for what he does, not because he’s a republican? I was a Bush supporter up until about 9/11 when he started going nuts. For me the guy gets a clean slate at the beginning, devoid of what party they belong to. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2005, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/70 "2005-02-22T22:12:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, there was Hersh’s report that JFK had established a half-million dollar trust fund for Marilyn Monroe’s mother - an assertion he later withdrew after it turned out to be slightly flawed, in the sense of being a complete fabrication. [Link](http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,987122,00.html) > > And then there’s the _Vanity Fair_ article on Hersh, saying he’s known to play “fast and loose” with the facts. [Link](http://archive.salon.com/media/1997/10/13hersh.html) Hardly a right-wing source, I might add. > > I’m just sayin’. …interesting cites. Its a pity I have to be a Time suscriber to read the first one. As for the second, it would be nice if you actually linked to the Vanity Fair article you implied you were linking to, as opposed to a Salon article. However, I think that the authors last paragraph pretty well sums it up: > [@](#): > > In truth, Hersh set himself up for a piece like Anson’s. Hersh is not a nice man in the Washington sense; he does not know how to make small talk, flatter his bosses, spin his defeats and conceal his fierce competitiveness. **He is simply the best investigative reporter alive and expects his work to speak for itself.** Bob Woodward, the man who is alleged to hold that title, managed to write a book about CIA Director Casey without discovering that the man was up to his nose-hair in Iran-Contra crime. It could have happened to anyone – except Sy Hersh. Absolutely devestating stuff **Bricker.** ---
**Author:** ![scartt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@scartt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scartt)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/71 "2005-02-23T05:53:36Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Don’t act like a smarmy little bastard and expect gracious treatment, fucko. My God Brutus, you come across as such an ill-mannered dick head. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/72 "2005-02-23T07:03:57Z")
> [@scartt](#): > > My God Brutus, you come across as such an ill-mannered dick head. You must be new here. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/73 "2005-02-23T07:19:56Z")
Just wanted to say: **Banquet Bear** , you _rock_, fellow Kiwi! Hear, hear! And **Calm Kiwi** : yeah. Bush’s spoutings piss me off, too. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/74 "2005-02-23T08:13:10Z")
Geez I haven’t visited “the Pit” lately. I’m surprised “Dopers” didn’t jump on **Brutus’ posting #11 :** \*I rather doubt that GW personally gathered the flawed intelligence. \* Darned right Brutus. GW was _born_ with it. Well maybe the SDMB members thought it was beneath them to take such a cheap shot at Dubya Bush - but I just couldn’t resist. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/75 "2005-02-23T10:30:22Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > P.S. > > **calm kiwi** , have you yet figured out how to turn ‘off’ (or reduce the volume of) the television or radio in front of you? Or is the dark power of GW _compelling_ you to listen to him speak? Yeah it is the dark power! I give that to the moron…I mean man. He is kinda hypnotic. I can understand how so many voted for him. It’s the smirk. Something about it is addictive. I keep thinking he is going to burst out in a fit of giggles and scream “GOT YA” any time soon. Watching him with Chirac was like watching a time bomb about to go off. I applaud his restraint but shit his face must hurt after that much smirking. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/76 "2005-02-23T10:38:41Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > What a bastard! Next, the asshole will talk about something truly horrible like love and compassion. > > Those goddamn Republicans, with their talk of peace and freedom. When will they learn that tyrants are people too? Awww I love the “peace” and freedom. I just really don’t like the attitude and the smirk. All those dead people who got the “democratic” yearning made me think twice about the whole peace thing. Meh, what do I know, not being a Republican, Democrat or American. Am I supposed to love the ever growing list of countries George wants to freedomise? Or are they the ones I am suposed to think are evil? ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/77 "2005-02-23T10:43:09Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > And a citizen of New Zealand is supposed to do what about the United States President, exactly? Not vote for him? > > The solution for someone who has absolutely no say whatsoever in who the President of the United States is would be to not listen to his speeches. Especially if they’re making that person extremely upset. My duty is to BITCH loudly. Of course it is entirely useless! I live in a country of 4 mill. We are fairly useless BUT we are democratic so we can rant till the cows come home. It serves no purpose other then to make me feel better. Until he decides we are undemocratic…or evil…or something. Then I head for the hills. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/78 "2005-02-23T10:50:07Z")
> [@Banquet Bear](#): > > …you see, thats the problem, over here in little New Zealand we don’t get a chance to vote for President Bush or not. Yet, Bush chooses to speak for us. And the people of Iraq. And for the people of Iran, and North Korea, and Australia, and Samoa. Whenever he talks about freedom and ridding the world of tyranny, and the Axis of Evil and bringing democracy to the world, he’s talking about us. And if he decides that a country is worthy of invasion, there is little we can do to stop him. > > [So as much as the “if you don’t like him, don’t watch him” appeals to us over here, unfortunately we can’t do it, you see. What President Bush does affects us over here, and although we can’t vote for him, we do what we can. I did vote for the government here that didn’t support the war, that didn’t supply troops for the war, but did supply troops to help out with the rebuilding stage until it got too dangerous to keep them in Iraq. I do watch Bush when he comes on TV, and I absolutely reserve the right to rant, complain, and criticize his actions. New Zealand troops served in Iraq, New Zealand troops are in Afghanistan, New Zealanders died alongside many other nations in the Bali bombing, and New Zealanders are under threat thanks to the newly formed “breeding ground for terrorists” aka Iraq… > > To be honest **Sam Stone** I very much doubt that anyone in New Zealand, let alone Canada, gives a shit if President Bush is a Republican or a Democrat. Clinton was loved by kiwi’s not because of his political affiliation, but because he was an extremely charismatic person. Bush (1) was well respected, and Gulf War One was generally regarded (by most kiwi’s) as a legitimate war. But Bush Jr’s administration clearly had an agenda (PNAC, anyone?), and the will, to push through a war, regardless of evidence. They set up a prison on foreign soil so their own laws could be circumvented, and locked people away for years with no legal recourse. My feelings for the Bush administration have absolutely **nothing** to do with his party affiliation, and would say the same goes for **calm kiwi** , who, to be fair, is anything but calm in this thread! 😉 Well said! Ok I wasn’t very calm but I didn’t see you banqueting (unless that was a feeding frenzy) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/79 "2005-02-23T10:53:36Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > btw. Kiwi I always preferred fucking twats. How’s yours doing? Kicked her out yet? The stupid bitch. The stupid bitch kept us out of the coalition of the stupid “willing”…for that alone she has my vote this year. But I would be tempted to give her my vote anyway, just because she raises your hackles so much. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/80 "2005-02-23T10:54:25Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > My duty is to BITCH loudly. Yeah, well how is that working for you so far? Changed any US foreign policy lately have you?.. Nope? Thought not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162.md?page=5)