# George Bush shut the fuck up! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 21, 2005, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162 "2005-02-21T13:18:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/101 "2005-02-23T12:33:36Z")
> [@Banquet Bear](#): > > …its not OUR fault there isn’t a whole lot of troops in an international coalition. I’m sure that New Zealand would be more than glad to go back to Iraq-I know that I would, under certain conditions. But when the US strategy seems to be designed to bolster the ranks of the Iraqi insurgents, why would we? If they end up having to stay in their compound for months on end because it was unsafe to otherwise, why would we? Tell me, beyond your strategy of “getting more troops from an international coalition”, how is this supposed to help? Our rules of engagement are different. We would have a different patrolling phillosophy. How do you suggest the influx of troops will help solve the situation? Who would they report to? It sounds like your conditions are that the terrorists are taken care of before you arrive there. What would be the point of having you then? One of the reasons for the terrorists is because this is perceived as empire building by the US. The terrorists think that they can do the Afghani trick of wearing down their occupiers over a long period of time and eventually the US will pull out because the US population will tire of it as in Vietnam. A multi-national force supported by their local governments and populations would hinder that thinking and make the terrorist’s operations difficult at best. If the terrorists can’t interfere with the infrastructure rebuilding and people start getting comfortable and feel safe again then support for the terrorists will dry up in the Iraqi population. It would be a huge blow to the terrorists if the world said, “Well, we don’t agree with you as to why you went in there, but we will certainly help in cleaning this mess up for nothing if not the Iraqi’s sake”. Oh, and nighty night! ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/102 "2005-02-23T12:49:17Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > It sounds like your conditions are that the terrorists are taken care of before you arrive there. What would be the point of having you then? FUCK ALL POINT! You think George will listen? ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/103 "2005-02-23T12:51:16Z")
Oh by the way my Uncle is a Veitnam vet. That war seemed to be useless too. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/104 "2005-02-23T12:53:38Z")
Call me whacky but I believe the more America “brings” freedom to the world, the more terrorists they make. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/105 "2005-02-23T14:01:58Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > FUCK ALL POINT! You think George will listen? You seem rather upset for a ‘calm’ kiwi. 😉 Hey, lets see if this works, “You are a fucking idiot! Anyone who would vote for Candidate X is an idiot. How can you be so stupid to allow someone like X to run your country?!” Does it make you upset when someone talks to you like that? If not you, then do you think it might make someone else upset if you talked to them like that? I think one of the reasons that GW is back in the White House is because people chose to voice their opinion in a negative way and many Americans took offense to that. It may not be logical, it may not be rational, and you may not like it, but it doesn’t mean that it’s not true. All I’m saying that the more you are derogatory towards someone the less chance you have to influence them. Shit, I like a good flame/rant as much as anyone which is making me wonder why I am arguing this, but the GW bashing is a continuous and monotonous drone that won’t solve anything anyhow. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/106 "2005-02-23T14:19:06Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > Call me whacky but I believe the more America “brings” freedom to the world, the more terrorists they make. I guess the alternate is to hide on an island in the middle of the Pacific…Hmmm… At what point do you stand by and not do something when others are hurting or being killed? This is not a question just about Iraq. If you saw your neighbour being attacked on the street, what would you do? Close your curtains? Call the police? Go out and stop the attackers? How about this? [NK Gulags](http://www.hrnk.org/pr-oct2103.html) Or this? [Experiments on Prisoners?](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/this_world/3440771.stm) Just let it continue until the NKoreans somehow rise up against it? What if that never happens? It seems rather cruel to let these people suffer just because they are not in a position to ask someone for help. > [@](#): > > “How did you feel when you saw the children die?”, I asked. > > His answer shocked me. > > “I had no sympathy at all because I was taught to think that they were all enemies of our country and that all our country’s problems were their fault. So I felt they deserved to die.” Sounds a lot like interveiws with former SS guards who worked in the death camps, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/107 "2005-02-23T17:27:26Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > It may not be logical, it may not be rational, and you may not like it, . Sums up the current presidency pretty well, for me. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/108 "2005-02-23T18:18:26Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > I guess the alternate is to hide on an island in the middle of the Pacific…Hmmm… > > At what point do you stand by and not do something when others are hurting or being killed? This is not a question just about Iraq. If you saw your neighbour being attacked on the street, what would you do? Close your curtains? Call the police? Go out and stop the attackers? Who are you asking? NZ? We’ve been part of UN monitoring actions all over the world for years, including doing stuff like ensuring democratic votes, and seeing to it that brother doesn’t beat the living fuck out of brother. We were in Afghanistan with the US _et alia_ after 9/11, but there are folks among the Bush supporters who tend to forget that in their zeal to agree with their Top Dog that all the other countries who kept out of invading Iraq are terrorist-abiding pussies. As **Banquet Bear** said, we’ve done our bit in Iraq. Bush invaded Iraq to bring that country under America’s sphere of influence. At what point do you _stop_ standing by and do something when there are human rights abuses happening now in nations who _are_ part of the democracy-bringing “coalition of the willing”? I wait with interest to find out the answer. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/109 "2005-02-23T18:30:25Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > I guess the alternate is to hide on an island in the middle of the Pacific…Hmmm… Huh? Does it always have to be one extreme or the other? > [@](#): > > At what point do you stand by and not do something when others are hurting or being killed? The point where interfering might cause more harm then good. > [@](#): > > If you saw your neighbour being attacked on the street, what would you do? There could be a million reasons he’s being attacked. Maybe he’s a drug dealer being attacked by vigilantes, or he’s a nice guy being randomly attacked. Depending on the dynamics of the situation, helping him out might be a good move or a bad move. Personally this is why I find all this “Saddam was a bad, evil guy” shit so silly. It doesn’t seem like anyone takes the time to sit down and look at the whole situation. Essentially he was an asshole that kept a lot of other assholes in check. > [@](#): > > Close your curtains? Perhaps. In many ways I could care less about my neighbors, let them solve their own problems. Am I supposed to go offer to rebuild my neighbors house at the expense of fixing my own? > [@](#): > > Call the police? Go out and stop the attackers? Maybe. But then again if the “attackers” have no beef with me, why should I give a shit? > [@](#): > > How about this? > [NK Gulags](http://www.hrnk.org/pr-oct2103.html) > Or this? > [Experiments on Prisoners?](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/this_world/3440771.stm) > > Just let it continue until the NKoreans somehow rise up against it? What if that never happens? It seems rather cruel to let these people suffer just because they are not in a position to ask someone for help. If we had the resources to save the world I’d be the first person for it. If we don’t, then we should help ourselves, then anyone else we can. Sudan comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/110 "2005-02-23T18:47:39Z")
> [@uzi](#): > > Hey, lets see if this works, “You are a fucking idiot! Anyone who would vote for Candidate X is an idiot. How can you be so stupid to allow someone like X to run your country?!” Does it make you upset when someone talks to you like that? If not you, then do you think it might make someone else upset if you talked to them like that? I think one of the reasons that GW is back in the White House is because people chose to voice their opinion in a negative way and many Americans took offense to that. > [@Rune](#): > > btw. Kiwi I always preferred fucking twats. How’s yours doing? Kicked her out yet? The stupid bitch. > [@calm kiwi](#): > > But I would be tempted to give her my vote anyway, just because she raises your hackles so much. umm… > [@uzi](#): > > You seem rather upset for a ‘calm’ kiwi. That’s just because you never saw an upset kiwi. God save us from a pissed off kiwi. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/111 "2005-02-23T19:01:34Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > YOU ARE THE IDEOLGY OF HATE!!! Fuck he’s an overly proud, hateful, weasely…bugger it! He’s a sad scarey hate monger! He dresses it up pretty though 😃 He’s done more for freedom than Clinton ever did 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/112 "2005-02-23T19:08:46Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > And once again, **Duffer** comes in and adds absolutely nothing to this thread. Go away, the grown ups are talking. I wouldn’t call the responses in this thread ‘grown up’ more like groans. Lets put it this way, if a lefty President was as bad as Bush, would you all be complaining? ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/113 "2005-02-23T19:11:57Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > He’s done more for freedom than Clinton ever did 🙂 That’s not saying a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/114 "2005-02-23T19:14:02Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I wouldn’t call the responses in this thread ‘grown up’ more like groans. Lets put it this way, if a lefty President was as bad as Bush, would you all be complaining? Yes. And thanks for agreeing that Bush is bad. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/115 "2005-02-23T19:18:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Maybe. But then again if the “attackers” have no beef with me, why should I give a shit? But at what point do you react? When they’re so powerful and threaten to burn your house down? Because people like you had the attitude that ‘hey they’re not doing anything to me right now, so I’ll just stay out of it’ there comes a point where you can’t stand on the edge looking at the situation, theres going to be times where you either decide to react and do something, or stay put to a point where the threat is even greater. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/116 "2005-02-23T19:20:00Z")
> [@Ice Wolf](#): > > That’s not saying a lot. yes it is. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/117 "2005-02-23T19:21:33Z")
> [@Ice Wolf](#): > > Yes. And thanks for agreeing that Bush is bad. Question: What leftist leader of the United States has had so much derogatory remarks and hate directed towards him equal to that of President Bush. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/118 "2005-02-23T19:41:22Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I wouldn’t call the responses in this thread ‘grown up’ more like groans. Lets put it this way, if a lefty President was as bad as Bush, would you all be complaining? Yes, hell yes. You do know I was right leaning up until about 9/11 right? As I’ve said before, I judge the _individual_ not whether to attack or support them depending on which party they belong to. There are many republicans which I support, and there are many democrats I loathe. I criticize Bush for _his actions_, and if someone else was doing the same thing, I’ll be screaming just as loud at them. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/119 "2005-02-23T19:58:10Z")
This is getting downright silly. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > But at what point do you react? And what if your reaction was the wrong course to take? Sometimes standing on the sidelines, or staying out of something untl it affects you is the smart move. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE DYNAMICS OF THE SITUATION! I can invent up a situation in which going to “save” a neighbor befalls more harm on me, then letting them get their ass kicked. You, I’m sure can invent a situation in which interceding saves the day. > [@](#): > > When they’re so powerful and threaten to burn your house down? Why do you assume that your neighbor’s problems will become your own? So if he’s getting beat up by some bookie he owes money to, and I don’t go help him, the bookie will come burn down my house after he’s done beating the shit out of him? If I go intercede and save him, will the bookie will magically go away forever, or come back with 10 of his boys and “burn down my house”? Yeah, I’ll be minding my business there thank you very much. > [@](#): > > Because people like you had the attitude that ‘hey they’re not doing anything to me right now, so I’ll just stay out of it’ there comes a point where you can’t stand on the edge looking at the situation, theres going to be times where you either decide to react and do something, or stay put to a point where the threat is even greater. Your logic is retarded man. You’re suggesting that the best course of action is _to always_ get involved in the situation. Most sane people know that there are times to go in, and times to stay out ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/120 "2005-02-23T20:14:22Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Question: > > What leftist leader of the United States has had so much derogatory remarks and hate directed towards him equal to that of President Bush. None. What does that tell us? A. The world is biased against Bush or B. He is really such an idiot that most of the world cant stand him. Are you even trying to _imply_ that the world doesn’t have enough reason to bash him so much? I could probably name 10 things of the top of my head. As any left wing, fuck that, has any pres from _any_ wing, waged preemptive war on totally false pretenses? How about telling the world to shove it on greenhouse emissions? How about telling the world court to fuck off? Flaunted geneva conventions with tortured logic? etc, etc ,etc. Held people without trial on some Orwellian tip? First we need a few people to do all this stuff, and then when only one of them gets singled out, we can claim bias. In the meantime the world seems to be calling a spade a spade. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162.md?page=7)