# George Bush shut the fuck up! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 21, 2005, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162 "2005-02-21T13:18:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/141 "2005-02-24T13:49:58Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > And our soldiers remember Dieppe. The past is the past. Unless you want me to bring up the only reason NZ isn’t part of Japan now is because the US was there to stop them, then lets leave the past there. You miss the point. Gallipoli taught us a lesson-“be careful when you entrust your troops to Generals from other nations.” Our choices regarding Iraq were partly governed by those lessons we learnt. Its clever to learn from our mistakes, is it not? > [@](#): > > Why doesn’t the UN take control if they feel so strongly about it? …why do insist on dancing away from the point you were making? You said this: > [@](#): > > One of the reasons for the terrorists is because this is perceived as empire building by the US. The terrorists think that they can do the Afghani trick of wearing down their occupiers over a long period of time and eventually the US will pull out because the US population will tire of it as in Vietnam. A multi-national force supported by their local governments and populations would hinder that thinking and make the terrorist’s operations difficult at best. …I responded: > [@](#): > > wouldn’t you think it would be logical for the US to \*\*have handed over control \*\*to the United Nations early in the occupation? (Note the bolded part. ) …the United Nations has never been in the position to take control, even if they REALLY REALLY felt strongly about it. By default, the United States were the occupying power, and if they felt strongly enough that a multi-national force was needed (as you seem to insist is the only way to stop the insurgency), why wouldn’t they hand over control? > [@](#): > > Yes, someone should do something about it. Isn’t that what the UN is for? The UN is there for many things, stamping out abuse and torture is one of them. Yet the United States has troops in Iraq at the moment, do they not? At the behest of the current elected government, are they not? We have documented statements from US Serviceman saying they found victims of torture, they tried to look after them, but were told to give them back to their torturers. What, in your opinion, should the UN’s stance be on the US and the Iraqi governments actions in this case? > [@](#): > > And do you think that everything after a war is cured overnight? No, everything after a war is not cured overnight. But if the country hadn’t been left to burn immediately after the invasion, if the reccomened amount of troops had been sent in the first place, if the carefully laid plans made by the State Department had been implemented and not ignored, if Garner hadn’t have been replaced as soon as he got there, if instead of selling off the countries assets in the opening months of the occupation the US had focused their attention on getting the country fixed and people working, wouldn’t you agree that things may have been better? > [@](#): > > What people don’t understand, and this is one of the main reasons I am against this war, is that in order for democracy to work in the sort of culture in Iraq it would take a generation of education to get people to understand why democracy is better for them than the leadership of the local mullah or strong man. Ain’t going to happen given the quick fix thinking in the West. …I think that most of us understand the problems bringing democracy to Iraq. Maybe the “quick fix thinking United States Administration” should have thought about it before they decided to invade. > [@](#): > > Get in there and stop it. What other solution do you have? Stand by and hope for the best? The United States IS in there. They CAN stop it. They CHOSE (in the cited situation) not to. They are standing by, while torture and abuse is happening, and hoping for the best. What do you suggest we do, invade the US? > [@](#): > > Ever thought that the US has bitten off more than it can chew (even though they won’t admit it themselves) at this point and one of the reasons this shit is going on is because they can’t be everywhere all the time? …if they have bitten off more than they can chew, its up to them to admit it, and ask for help, is it not? If they can’t do that, why should we assume they need the help? Do you really think the problems in Iraq at the moment are caused because they can’t be everywhere at the same time? > [@](#): > > Do you seriously think that Americans want people to be tortured? That the typical soldier wants people to be tortured? Barring the occasional fuckasses, I don’t think this is true. While this may be true, does it matter? Did you read the incident I cited? The troops obviously didn’t want the people to be tortured, but that didn’t stop the torture. They were told by their bosses to stand down and hand the prisoners back to their abusers. They complied. They were complicit. Thats all that matters to the average Iraqi in the street, who’s trying to decide whether or not to join the insurgency. > [@](#): > > If the Nations of the world want this to stop then all they have to do is step up to the plate. They won’t because they are more interested in seeing the US fail than in helping out the people in Iraq. Oh please. You were the one who bought up the subject of torture in the first place, remember this comment? **Sounds a lot like interveiws with former SS guards who worked in the death camps, doesn’t it?** …you keep moving the goal posts in your arguement, but I’m not falling for it. You state things like: > [@](#): > > It seems rather cruel to let these people suffer just because they are not in a position to ask someone for help. …yet when you are shown that the United States are clearly in the position to help out in situations like this, you shift the debate. What is your opinion on the situation where the US troops were told to **stand down?** The statement that we want to see the United States fail is repugnant-it’s as bad as the accuasation in another thread where somebody accused me of “glee” over the Iraqi death toll. Everybody looses if the US fail. Complaining about people pointing out that the US **is** failing is moronic. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/142 "2005-02-25T01:56:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Scared? Where the hell did I mention that. Would you like to know my justification for “leaving SH in power”? We’d be 400 BILLION richer, still have global respect, and thousands of dead and injured soldiers wouldn’t be dead and injured Fuck off, the liberation of people from tyranny has no price tag attatched, its absoultely worth it regardless. > [@](#): > > Now it’s important to point out that the alternate to not invading isn’t to let SH do whatever the fuck he wanted. Do you follow me? Oppressing yet more people, killing more thousands, and waiting until the time was right until he could get his hands on WMD yet again, yeah seems a real bargin. > [@](#): > > We should just be mindful not to replace SH with something worse, like say, a shite dominated theocracy with links to Iran. Only time will tell, but I’m not optimistic about things. I don’t fucking care, I’ve explained over five times how the Iraqi government will not become a theocracy solely for the fact that it needs _consensus of the two large minorities the Kurds and Sunni Arabs_ do I have to put this point across a bazillion times to get it through? THE SHITES NEED CONSENSUS WITH A 40% MINORITY TO RULE IRAQ IN A FASHION THEY WANT. This proves a theocracy is impossible to implement, because it would mean the immediate detatchment of both groups from the state of Iraq. > [@](#): > > You know you should come live in the neighborhood I grew up in. The game is about survival, not running around preaching this and that. You would be amazed at what can be accomplished by complacency, namely YOU’RE LEFT THE FUCK ALONE. Leaving Iraq to fester wouldn’t help anyone, it would only increase the volatility of the region moreso in the long run helping them towards democracy and good governance is the only way forward, saying SH regime would some sort of necessity because it was ‘secular’ is b.s, false secularism is never going to last, it can only be embraced when the population want it, not when its enforced. > [@](#): > > Look at a bazillion other countries and ask why they’re not having terrorists chant death to them. I don’t care, the UK when at its height, was the most _hated country in the world_ all solely due to its success as an economic and political leader on Earth, with power comes resentment in many forms, the US is used to this, terrorists chanting ‘death to America’ is nothing new, get used to it. Whatever the US does will never be acceptable to the terrorists. > [@](#): > > Now sometimes you have to throw the beatdown on a punk, and that’s fine. SH was no doubt a punk, but every punk has his price. $500 million to get rid of the punk? fine by me. $100 billion? Um, shit, that’s getting expensive. $400 Billion? Screw that, we could have healthcare, let him live. $1 TRILLION? At what point do you say he wasn’t worth it. that 100 billion is to ensure the country doesn’t destory itself becaus ethat _punk_ fucked it up so much, its not the Iraqis fault that their in this situation. I can’t believe this, imagine if you were expressing your opinions about Hitler in WWII, how America could stay out of the war and save its money for new employment programs to help the poor, its the same kinda thing, only with a 21st century zeal, it doesn’t work, doesn’t help anyone, and is detremental to US economic security in the long run, the Iraq war is worth it. > [@](#): > > People don’t like him because of his bad policy decisions, not because he’s a republican. Please get that through your thick skull. Could of fooled me ☹ > [@](#): > > And Clinton did more to promote the power of the blow job…your point is what? President Bush has freed more countries than Clinton? Thats my point dumbass. Blowjobs and liberating countries are hardly a good comparison 🙂 (now I’ll have someone with a reply making the case of how they are related :rolleyes: ) ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/143 "2005-02-25T17:25:01Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Fuck off, the liberation of people from tyranny has no price tag attatched, its absoultely worth it regardless. Of course liberating people from tyranny has a price tag. In the case of Iraq, it’s $400 billion. That’s the amount that buys X number of tanks, places, humvess, armor, bullets, bombs, the salaries of the personnel, the cost of chartering transport ships to ship all the crap over, etc, etc, etc. It would probably be very easy to itemize the whole war. Anyway the point is _there is a cost_, that’s a fact. What’s really in debate here is at _what cost_ does the effort become too expensive. Would you pay 1 trillion to liberate Iraq? 5 trillion? 10 trillion? > [@](#): > > I don’t fucking care, I’ve explained over five times how the Iraqi government will not become a theocracy solely for the fact that it needs _consensus of the two large minorities the Kurds and Sunni Arabs_ do I have to put this point across a bazillion times to get it through? THE SHITES NEED CONSENSUS WITH A 40% MINORITY TO RULE IRAQ IN A FASHION THEY WANT. Oh yes, lucky they have some technicality on a piece of paper to avoide bloody civil war. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > This proves a theocracy is impossible to implement, because it would mean the immediate detatchment of both groups from the state of Iraq. No, just one. bye bye Kurds > [@](#): > > Leaving Iraq to fester wouldn’t help anyone, it would only increase the volatility of the region moreso in the long run helping them towards democracy and good governance is the only way forward, saying SH regime would some sort of necessity because it was ‘secular’ is b.s, false secularism is never going to last, it can only be embraced when the population want it, not when its enforced. See your problem is that you speak in generalities, never mentioning the specifics of an issue. Uttering things such as “once we bring democracy to Iraq” isn’t good enough. Of FUCKING COURSE we want democracy to take root there, that’s a no brainer. Will it actually happen? Are the proper conditions present, and in the right combination for democracy to emerge? If you’re going to talk to me fer christsakes , don’t talk in vague bullshit. When I ask how we should defeat the insurgency, don’t tell me we need to just “tough it out”. Details detail details. Our course of action is clear, how we procede on it isn’t. As the old saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. > [@](#): > > I don’t care, the UK when at its height, was the most _hated country in the world_ all solely due to its success as an economic and political leader on Earth, with power comes resentment in many forms, the US is used to this, terrorists chanting ‘death to America’ is nothing new, get used to it. Whatever the US does will never be acceptable to the terrorists. As a poster in another thread so eloquently put it, Muslims hate us because we bomb them, not because we’re American. > [@](#): > > that 100 billion is to ensure the country doesn’t destory itself becaus ethat _punk_ fucked it up so much, its not the Iraqis fault that their in this situation. I can’t believe this, imagine if you were expressing your opinions about Hitler in WWII, how America could stay out of the war and save its money for new employment programs to help the poor, its the same kinda thing, only with a 21st century zeal, Well it’s my pleasure to inform you that I thought WW2 was totally worth the sacrifice we made. I however do not feel the current cost (400 billion and counting) of invading Iraq is worth it. You see I can be for one situation and against another, mostly due to the fact that applying the same standards to two radically different situations is stupid. Please don’t assume because I’m against the Iraq war, that I’m against every war we’ve ever been involved in ok? > [@](#): > > it doesn’t work, doesn’t help anyone, and is detremental to US economic security in the long run, the Iraq war is worth it. Pretty silly to say it was worth it when we don’t even know the final cost do we? Since I’ve already passed my threashold (100 billion, 1,000 dead) I can say that IMO from this point on, it wasn’t worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/144 "2005-02-25T23:46:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh yes, lucky they have some technicality on a piece of paper to avoide bloody civil war. But the whole premise of ‘oh there will be civil war between the ethnic groups’ hasn’t materialised and is detremental to any one group wanting to maintain power, thats why I find it so ridiculous. > [@](#): > > See your problem is that you speak in generalities, never mentioning the specifics of an issue. Uttering things such as “once we bring democracy to Iraq” isn’t good enough. Of FUCKING COURSE we want democracy to take root there, that’s a no brainer. Will it actually happen? Are the proper conditions present, and in the right combination for democracy to emerge? If you’re going to talk to me fer christsakes , don’t talk in vague bullshit. When I ask how we should defeat the insurgency, don’t tell me we need to just “tough it out”. Details detail details. Our course of action is clear, how we procede on it isn’t. I didn’t say we needed to just ‘tough it out’ but conditions where we just leave and let the insurgents and terrorists rip the security forces to shreds isn’t going to help anyone isn’t it? > [@](#): > > As a poster in another thread so eloquently put it, Muslims hate us because we bomb them, not because we’re American. Yes, and because of American economic power which backs it moron, otherwise those bombs would be harder to get to those places. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/145 "2005-02-26T04:12:24Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > Really just FUCK HIM!!! The user name… the irony… I’m getting faint… ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/146 "2005-02-26T04:51:08Z")
> [@Banquet Bear](#): > > You miss the point. Gallipoli taught us a lesson-“be careful when you entrust your troops to Generals from other nations.” Our choices regarding Iraq were partly governed by those lessons we learnt. Its clever to learn from our mistakes, is it not? No I understood the point. Probably the same reason that the US doesn’t want to hand over control of its units to other countries, either. Yet, someone has to be in charge, don’t they? > [@](#): > > …the United Nations has never been in the position to take control, even if they REALLY REALLY felt strongly about it. … > The UN is there for many things, stamping out abuse and torture is one of them. I wonder why so many people say we should listen to this ineffective body then. If they aren’t there to change things for the better, why bother? > [@](#): > > Yet the United States has troops in Iraq at the moment, do they not? > At the behest of the current elected government, are they not? We have documented statements from US Serviceman saying they found victims of torture, they tried to look after them, but were told to give them back to their torturers. What, in your opinion, should the UN’s stance be on the US and the Iraqi governments actions in this case? As they can’t do anything even if they REALLY, REALLY want to, who cares what their stance is? As that is the reality then only the US’s allies would have any affect upon their actions. Only those countries on the ground could make any changes that the US will listen to. If you aren’t there, I guess you aren’t in a position for your complaint to be registered. > [@](#): > > No, everything after a war is not cured overnight. But if the country hadn’t been left to burn immediately …wouldn’t you agree that things may have been better? Take a deep breath, let it out and calm yourself. Now that your snit is over about what might have been (and I don’t particularily disagree with your assesment of the past), WHAT THE HELL SHOULD BE DONE NOW!!! Jesus Christ, you people spend so much time in the past bleating over what should have been/not been/ done that I wonder if you have lives yourself. The correct question is what should be done now to guarantee that Iraq will not turn into a theocracy or another dictatorship? What will guarantee the freedom of the Iraqis for the foreseeable future? > [@](#): > > The United States IS in there. They CAN stop it. They CHOSE (in the cited situation) not to. They are standing by, while torture and abuse is happening, and hoping for the best. What do you suggest we do, invade the US? If everyone agrees that in this case torture is wrong, and the troops themselves don’t want to turn the prisoners over to the local authorities, then why are they doing it? Could it be that the Iraqi police/troops haven’t received enough of the proper training? Could more troops from the US and other countries give the Iraqis enough time to train correctly and also demonstrate by their actions the proper way of doing things? This is why I say any occupation of this sort not only has to throw out the previous dictator, but has to change the underlying nature of the society in question. That takes many years. It would take the resources of more than one nation to pull it off. > [@](#): > > What is your opinion on the situation where the US troops were told to **stand down?** It is reprehensible. So now what? If the UN can’t do anything, and other countries won’t get involved to try and stop it, what now? Realistically, the only way things can change for the better is if other countries get involved on the ground. That will gain them influence because their support is conditional upon changes being made. And while smaller countries like NZ and Canada, can’t individually make much of a difference, collectively they may. > [@](#): > > The statement that we want to see the United States fail is repugnant-it’s as bad as the accuasation in another thread where somebody accused me of “glee” over the Iraqi death toll. Everybody looses if the US fail. Complaining about people pointing out that the US **is** failing is moronic. No, what is moronic is sitting around bitching about things and not doing what is the only way to make a difference - putting troops on the ground. At least I’ve heard no other solution in this discusssion, or many others I’ve read. If you’re not willing to do what is necessary then you are willing to see the US fail. And while my statement may seem repugnant to you, I am only stating what is the perception I’ve gained from reading threads like this and talking to people. They may all say they don’t want the US to fail but there is quite a bit of schadenfraude mixed in there, too. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/147 "2005-02-26T04:52:15Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > FUCK ALL POINT! You think George will listen? You say that as if George should care what you think. Hint: He doesn’t, and more power to him for that. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/148 "2005-02-26T04:59:04Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > You say that as if George should care what you think. > > Hint: He doesn’t, and more power to him for that. Shit, forget everything else I’ve said to this point. What milroyj said pretty much says it all. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/149 "2005-02-26T20:47:37Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > But the whole premise of ‘oh there will be civil war between the ethnic groups’ hasn’t materialised and is detremental to any one group wanting to maintain power, thats why I find it so ridiculous. A) Hasn’t _yet_ materialized. I’ll hint to you that it _won’t_ materialize until US forces leave the country. Do you think those wrestling for power are stupid or something? They’re going to pay us lip service until the day we leave, and once we’re gone, _and can’t do much about it_, they’ll make their moves. Do you need a map or something? B) A civil war is “detrimental” to any one group wanting to maintain power? What are you smoking man? A civil war is a MEANS for one group to kill their opponents and TAKE power. Right now the Kurds are supporting the Shites because they’re under some impression the favor will be returned. Boy will they be surprised when that doesn’t happen. How many times in history has someone said, "ok we’ll help you get into power, and don’t forget about us when you get there. The Shites will be like, um, yeah dudes, ok. > [@](#): > > I didn’t say we needed to just ‘tough it out’ but conditions where we just leave and let the insurgents and terrorists rip the security forces to shreds isn’t going to help anyone isn’t it? Well the logical solution to this is stay there until the Iraqi security forces can maintain control of the country. The PROBLEM is that the Iraqi forces may NEVER be able to maintain control of the country. Remember, the most advance military in the history of the world can _barely_ maintain control of the country, how do we realistically expect a bunch of guys in pickup trucks to do it. Do you ever consider this issues? > [@](#): > > Yes, and because of American economic power which backs it moron, otherwise those bombs would be harder to get to those places. :rolleyes: If Bill Gates kills one of your family members, do you hate him because he killed your flesh and blood, or because he has billions in the bank? I find saying these people hate us because of our “freedom” or because we’re wealthy to be highly ignorant. Like we’re the center of the world and everyone wants to be like us. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/150 "2005-02-26T20:50:07Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > You say that as if George should care what you think. > > Hint: He doesn’t, and more power to him for that. Yes, not caring for whate people think is a great way to conduct yourself in office. This country could be so much more then it is, yet it never will be with moronic attitudes like yours. You guys are the traitors. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/151 "2005-02-26T23:39:50Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Yes, not caring for whate people think is a great way to conduct yourself in office. Err, ya, because he should be striving to placate those who didn’t vote for him. Of course. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/152 "2005-02-26T23:46:52Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Err, ya, because he should be striving to placate those who didn’t vote for him. Of course. 😕 Even better, he should be striving to placate New Zealanders! who didn’t vote for him. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2005, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/153 "2005-02-27T00:15:39Z")
If his actions affect _only_ those who voted for him, then let him continue what he’s doing. Since his actions have global ramifications, of which affect the _entire_ US, a man of better character would attempt to act with the best interests of his country and its allies in mind. Bush is no such man. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/154 "2005-02-27T00:17:52Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Even better, he should be striving to placate New Zealanders! who didn’t vote for him. Yes, the big 'ol mighty US could never learn anything from our allies. :rolleyes: And before you morons hit me back with boilerplate response #7, we’re not going to please our allies all the time, but we shouldn’t scold them if they don’t want to join our fight. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2005, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/155 "2005-02-27T00:40:58Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Yes, the big 'ol mighty US could never learn anything from our allies. :rolleyes: Yes, “George Bush shut the fuck up!” is a reasonable sentiment that we should take into consideration and “learn” from. Or not. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2005, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/156 "2005-02-27T00:46:53Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Yes, “George Bush shut the fuck up!” is a reasonable sentiment that we should take into consideration and “learn” from. > > Or not. Last time I checked **Calm Kiwi** didn’t equal _all_ NZers ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/157 "2005-02-27T01:12:59Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Last time I checked **Calm Kiwi** didn’t equal _all_ NZers Of course not, and I never claimed she did. Only that her opinion as expressed in the OP was not something that merited consideration by reasonable people on a message board, let alone by the POTUS. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/158 "2005-02-27T01:30:45Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Of course not, and I never claimed she did. Only that her opinion as expressed in the OP was not something that merited consideration by reasonable people on a message board, let alone by the POTUS. Fuck that, as usual you derail the argument away from the facts. The itimation was that he should only serve those who voted for him. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/159 "2005-02-27T01:45:15Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Fuck that, as usual you derail the argument away from the facts. The itimation was that he should only serve those who voted for him. Fuck that, yourself. Are you seriously stating that Bush should serve Kiwis, too? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2005, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162/160 "2005-02-27T02:00:39Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Fuck that, yourself. Are you seriously stating that Bush should serve Kiwis, too? Serve the kiwis? When did I state that? Don’t change the subject. Do you believe that Bush has an obligation to only take care of those who voted for him? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-bush-shut-the-fuck-up/291162.md?page=9)