# George H W Bush and atheists **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 24, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233 "2005-09-24T17:50:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/1 "2005-09-24T17:50:14Z")
I am asking here because I do NOT want a debate or a flame fest. I just want a simple answer and a cite that either verifies or debunks. Question: Did George H W Bush say atheists are not good Americans or did he not say it? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/2 "2005-09-24T18:04:29Z")
I found this, but it was Papa Bush in 1987: > [@](#): > > RS: “What will you do to win the votes of Americans who are atheists?” > GB: “I guess I’m pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in God is important to me.” > RS: “Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?” > GB: “No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.” > RS: “Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?” > GB: “Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I’m just not very high on atheists.” ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/3 "2005-09-24T18:55:49Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > I found this, but it was Papa Bush in 1987: George H.W. _is_ Papa Bush. I think what the OP wants to know is, what is the source on this quote, and has it ever been verified? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/4 "2005-09-24T19:00:55Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > George H.W. _is_ Papa Bush. I think what the OP wants to know is, what is the source on this quote, and has it ever been verified? :smack: I knew that. The site where I found the quote lists “Free Inquiry” magazine (Fall 1988 issue, Volume 8, Number 4, page 16) as the source. [Here’s their site](http://www.secularhumanism.org/lib/list.php?publication=fi), but the online archive does not go back to 1988. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/5 "2005-09-24T19:28:13Z")
This has been debated several times before here. It comes down to whether or not you believe the reporter who reported it. Some do, some don’t. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/6 "2005-09-24T20:25:00Z")
Thank you all who have replied. I guess, depending on the cited sources, I still have to take it all with a grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/7 "2005-09-24T20:44:49Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > . . . I still have to take it all with a grain of salt. That would probably be wise. I’m an atheist, and no fan of the Bushes; but unless I actually see footage of him saying this, I tend to believe it’s invented. ---
**Author:** ![MaryEFoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MaryEFoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaryEFoo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/8 "2005-09-24T21:38:44Z")
Did GHWB ever confirm it, or deny it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/9 "2005-09-24T21:50:31Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > This has been debated several times before here. It comes down to whether or not you believe the reporter who reported it. Some do, some don’t. Well, which reporter reported it and in which publication? That will tell us a lot. If it’s Lefty LePen published in [IHATEBUSH.COM](http://IHATEBUSH.COM), I’m not inclinded to believe it. If it’s Bob Woodward in the Washington Post, I’ll believe it. I’ve seen the supposed direct quote in some threads and it was much more incriminating than the OP suggests. It was something like (paraphrased): Atheists aren’t patriotic and shouldn’t be elected to public office. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/10 "2005-09-24T21:54:50Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Well, which reporter reported it and in which publication? That will tell us a lot. If it’s Lefty LePen published in [IHATEBUSH.COM](http://IHATEBUSH.COM), I’m not inclinded to believe it. If it’s Bob Woodward in the Washington Post, I’ll believe it. IIRC, it was a writer for a publication focusing on atheism. ---
**Author:** ![Erinaceus\_europaeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47774/32.png) [@Erinaceus\_europaeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erinaceus_europaeus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/11 "2005-09-24T23:18:46Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > If it’s Lefty LePen published in [IHATEBUSH.COM](http://IHATEBUSH.COM), I’m not inclinded to believe it. This [“Lefty” Lepen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Marie_Le_Pen)? ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/12 "2005-09-24T23:21:41Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Well, which reporter reported it and in which publication? That will tell us a lot. If it’s Lefty LePen published in [IHATEBUSH.COM](http://IHATEBUSH.COM), I’m not inclinded to believe it. If it’s Bob Woodward in the Washington Post, I’ll believe it. > > I’ve seen the supposed direct quote in some threads and it was much more incriminating than the OP suggests. It was something like (paraphrased): Atheists aren’t patriotic and shouldn’t be elected to public office. I would argue that saying they shouldn’t be considered citizens is far more damaging. For starters, it probably includes the idea of not being elected for office, since I doubt non-citizens can run for many elections. Also, if they aren’t citizens, where is he proposing they be deported? 😉 I’m gonna have to assume (until further evidence shows otherwise) that this was not said. It is just too ill thought out. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/13 "2005-09-24T23:22:34Z")
> [@Erinaceus europaeus](#): > > This [“Lefty” Lepen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Marie_Le_Pen)? No, that’s his cousin “Righty”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/14 "2005-09-24T23:25:48Z")
According to [Positive Atheism](http://www.positiveatheism.org), “RS” is Robert Sherman. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/15 "2005-09-24T23:46:02Z")
> [@Driver8](#): > > I’m gonna have to assume (until further evidence shows otherwise) that this was not said. It is just too ill thought out. Without getting overly political, we are talking about a Bush here. Neither father nor son are renowned for their facility with the English language. Both also pandered to the radical religious right as part of their campaign and governing strategies. I can absolutely believe that GHWB would say something like atheists aren’t patriots, but frankly I’d be more likely to expect to here it from _fils_ rather than _pere_. What I find hard to believe is that either Bush would grant an interview as a sitting president or a candidate to a magazine devoted to secular humanism. I’d also be a little happier if the sites listing it online tended to have names other than “[evilbible.com](http://evilbible.com)” and “[infidels.org](http://infidels.org)”. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/16 "2005-09-25T01:14:07Z")
We have the purported quote, but I think we all agree that it is not ironclad proof, and the sources could fairly be called less than neutral. If it had been a few of the more well known and mainstream newspapers I would be more confident. Without any consideration as to what we each think of either individual Bush, or what we think either one might say, I was just hoping for something more indisputable and concrete. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/17 "2005-09-25T07:20:43Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > What I find hard to believe is that either Bush would grant an interview as a sitting president or a candidate to a magazine devoted to secular humanism. For what it’s worth, it has never been claimed that the purported quote was in the context of a sit-down interview with _Up With Atheism! Weekly_ or anything like that; the story is that in 1987 Robert Sherman with American Atheist Press and _American Atheist_ magazine was attending a press conference at O’Hare airport; he was basically one of many reporters posing various questions to the then-Vice President. See [here](http://www.robsherman.com/projects/statechurchsep/newdow/original.htm#Summary) for details (scroll down to “Example 1”). ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/18 "2005-09-25T08:38:41Z")
Since when do reptilians have “faith in God”? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/19 "2005-09-25T09:35:45Z")
> [@Good Egg](#): > > Since when do reptilians have “faith in God”? Let’s keep the political comments out of General Questions, please. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/20 "2005-09-25T15:08:22Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Robert Sherman with American Atheist Press and _American Atheist_ magazine was attending a press conference at O’Hare airport Hey, if Bush is using an airport named after our most famous atheist, he can’t be that opposed to us. Daniel [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233.md?page=2)