# George H.W. Bush doesn't get it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 18, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264 "2005-09-18T21:42:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/1 "2005-09-18T21:42:44Z")
I’m watching the NFL and they’ve been playing the PSA for the Bush-Clinton Hurricane Fund. All of this is fine. Until I hear big daddy Bush’s closing line. “Help our Neighbors in the Gulf Coast”. Um, dumbass, you’re an American, you’re a former President, you’re appealing to the rest of the country to help _fellow Americans_. They are not neighbors…they are not “those people over there”…they are _us_. Calling them our neighbors implies that they are not part of this country, that they are another people not attached to his country. We’re not sending aid to Mexico, we’re not sending aid to part of he intternational community. We’re helping ourselves here. Not just people, but our economy and our national best interests. Am I the only one who thinks this phrasing is another example of the Bush family’s inability to divest themselves from this “us and them” mentality. It’s embarassing ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/2 "2005-09-18T21:49:01Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I’m watching the NFL and they’ve been playing the PSA for the Bush-Clinton Hurricane Fund. All of this is fine. Until I hear big daddy Bush’s closing line. “Help our Neighbors in the Gulf Coast”. > > Um, dumbass, you’re an American, you’re a former President, you’re appealing to the rest of the country to help _fellow Americans_. They are not neighbors…they are not “those people over there”…they are _us_. Calling them our neighbors implies that they are not part of this country, that they are another people not attached to his country. We’re not sending aid to Mexico, we’re not sending aid to part of he intternational community. We’re helping ourselves here. Not just people, but our economy and our national best interests. > > Am I the only one who thinks this phrasing is another example of the Bush family’s inability to divest themselves from this “us and them” mentality. It’s embarassing Yes, I think you’re the only one. I hope. "help your neighbors’ is a fundamental charitable impulse. Since when is referring to someone as your ‘neighbor in need’ somehow exclusionary? I think you’re looking a little too hard for things to criticise. George HW Bush and Bill Clinton have both been stand-up guys and good ex-presidents for the U.S., volunteering their time and effort for all sorts of charitable causes. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/3 "2005-09-18T21:58:12Z")
I’m fairly sure someone else wrote the script for that PSA and used “neighbors” to reinforce the idea that these people are, in fact, Americans and worthy of help. I can think of lots of reasons not to like Poppy Bush, but this ain’t one of 'em. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Bytor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bytor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytor)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/4 "2005-09-18T22:01:15Z")
I think I am somewhere in the middle. I do not feel it wsa intended necessarily to be a divisive phrase, but it is not exactly my first choice of wording for what we can all agree was the symantical “thrust of his gist”. As someone who lives in the Northwest, New Orleans is not exactly near enough to call a neighbor, so I could argue that he isn’t really speaking to me about this. and yet it seems clear that he is speaking to all Americans. I think in the end, if he is guilty of anything, Bush Sr. is only guilty of trying to tap into Americans’ willingness to help neighbors. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/5 "2005-09-18T22:01:30Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Am I the only one who thinks this phrasing is another example of the Bush family’s inability to divest themselves from this “us and them” mentality. I think you are. I doubt he wrote the script for the commercial, and I don’t think that’s what it means. Unless you’re giving to the Red Cross to help _yourself_ after the hurricane, which would be very strange, you’re giving to help ‘your neighbors.’ ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/6 "2005-09-18T22:05:06Z")
Yeah, I also think ‘neighbor’ was a good choice of words. I don’t see an “us or them” mentality there, I think of folks like my neighbors across the street. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/7 "2005-09-18T22:12:00Z")
I don’t think G. H. W. Bush wrote his own dialogue, but I suppose he might have flubbed the line. If it was actually written that way, it’s a screwup. Because of the national representational role we assign to our Chief Executives, when a President (or ex-Pres) says “our neighbors”, he’s generally speaking of a geographically close country outside of the US. When speaking of fellow Americans, you’d expect him to ask that you “help _your_ neighbors” (as **Marley23** thinks he actually did). This is not a big deal, but if Bush 41 had actually said this extemporaneously, I’d think the OP had a better case. As it is, I assume the phrasing was the fault of a careless script writer. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/8 "2005-09-18T22:16:30Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Am I the only one who thinks this phrasing is another example of the Bush family’s inability to divest themselves from this “us and them” mentality. It’s embarassing Probably not but that doesn’t make it right. We’re not just America we’re the United States of America. I live in Arkansas and if you live in Louisiana I wouldn’t be offended by you referring to my state as your neighbor. It might sound odd but a lot of Americans might look at the Gulf Coast and think of it as “those people.” There certainly didn’t seem to be a lot of “We” or “Us” during the aftermath of the 2004 Presidential elections. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/9 "2005-09-18T22:23:51Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > There certainly didn’t seem to be a lot of “We” or “Us” during the aftermath of the 2004 Presidential elections. > > Marc Well, being that it was a divisive political topic, you’d not expect their to be any “we and us”. Not a good analogy for a humanitarian and economic disaster such as this. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/10 "2005-09-18T22:31:36Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Am I the only one who thinks this phrasing is another example of the Bush family’s inability to divest themselves from this “us and them” mentality. Yes. Not literally, of course, but you get the meaning. > [@](#): > > It’s embarassing Something is embarassing here, but I don’t think it’s the use of “neighbor” in the ad. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/11 "2005-09-18T22:33:40Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > I’m fairly sure someone else wrote the script for that PSA and used “neighbors” to reinforce the idea that these people are, in fact, Americans and worthy of help. I don’t buy this. First of all, I’m sure the script was written by someone in the current administration. So even if you’re severing the ex-Presidents from the context of their words, there’s still a political influence stemming from the policies of the Bush administration. However, these guys aren’t actors. They are politicians that have obviously always had their speeches and comments partially scripted and rehearsed. However, unlike actors who typically recite dialogue, these guys have direct influence on the way the speeches are worded and delivered (both directly and by the hiring of such speech writers) and it’s unclear how much of the commercial in question was ad-libbed or canned. I do not divorce liability on a politician’s words under any circumstances because they “were scripted by someone else”. It stinks of “plausible deniablity” and the constant insulation against critisism that is American politics. We may debate whether the commentary was politically loaded or not, but IMO letting him off the hook because they weren’t his words is bullshit. Would you use the same logic if he’d said something inappropriate or against your political views during a election campaign? I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/12 "2005-09-18T22:36:18Z")
> [@Bytor](#): > > I think I am somewhere in the middle. I do not feel it wsa intended necessarily to be a divisive phrase, but it is not exactly my first choice of wording for what we can all agree was the symantical “thrust of his gist”. I agree that it likely wasn’t _intended_. However, I still feel that it has a slant which I find either ignorant or malicious, I haven’t decided which. The fact that he’d speak this way subconciously is probably even more troubling if you were to agree with my premise. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/13 "2005-09-18T22:39:04Z")
Let it go, **Omniscient**. GHWB’s use of the word “neighbor” was appropriate. Even if it wasn’t–which it was–why get upset over it? It’s just boilerplate language in a standard effort to encourage charitable giving after a disaster. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/14 "2005-09-18T22:40:34Z")
Nah, PSAs are generally either produced by the agency itself or pro bono by an ad agency. I sincerely doubt a Bush 43-administration speechwriter wrote it for maximum political gain. Besides, would you want Poppy speaking extemporaneously? I didn’t think so. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/15 "2005-09-18T22:44:42Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Because of the national representational role we assign to our Chief Executives, when a President (or ex-Pres) says “our neighbors”, he’s generally speaking of a geographically close country outside of the US. When speaking of fellow Americans, you’d expect him to ask that you “help _your_ neighbors” (as **Marley23** thinks he actually did). > > This is not a big deal, but if Bush 41 had actually said this extemporaneously, I’d think the OP had a better case. As it is, I assume the phrasing was the fault of a careless script writer. You’ve pretty well captured the gist of my point, probably better than I originally did. The word neighbor obviously doesn’t have a divisive conotation when used in any context between one of us, but when used in a representative capacity for the entire country, doing so makes a pretty clear implication to me that these are _another_ people. I’d wager that the word naighbor was used in speeches and ads in response to the tsunami. There it feels appropriate. In this context, it feels exclusionary. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/16 "2005-09-18T22:48:30Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Nah, PSAs are generally either produced by the agency itself or pro bono by an ad agency. I sincerely doubt a Bush 43-administration speechwriter wrote it for maximum political gain. I agree that it wasn’t written for political gain, I don’t believe that this was intentional or even especially destructive. I do however feel, that in when viewed in the context of the way these two Bush administrations have dealt with people outside of their ilk, it’s a indicator of how they think. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/17 "2005-09-18T22:50:11Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > When speaking of fellow Americans, you’d expect him to ask that you “help _your_ neighbors” (as **Marley23** thinks he actually did). :rolleyes: It was a paraphrase. > [@Omniscient](#): > > The word neighbor obviously doesn’t have a divisive conotation when used in any context between one of us, but when used in a representative capacity for the entire country, doing so makes a pretty clear implication to me that these are another people. It’s not me. It’s not my friends or my neighbors, it’s not anyone I know. It’s all of our neighbors in the philosophical sense. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/18 "2005-09-18T22:50:16Z")
> [@Larry Borgia](#): > > Let it go, **Omniscient**. GHWB’s use of the word “neighbor” was appropriate. Even if it wasn’t–which it was–why get upset over it? It’s just boilerplate language in a standard effort to encourage charitable giving after a disaster. It’s not so much that I’m upset over it. In isolation it’s insignificant. I see it as more a symptom of his condition, one which should be pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/19 "2005-09-18T22:52:30Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I see it as more a symptom of his condition, one which should be pointed out. Can you offer some other symptoms, then? Of course, he’s not the President anyway and I’m not especially worried about “his condition,” but that’s another thing. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/20 "2005-09-18T22:56:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s not me. It’s not my friends or my neighbors, it’s not anyone I know. It’s all of our neighbors in the philosophical sense. I think that _I_ can refer to the people of the gulf coast as my neighbors. In the philisophical sense it’s accurate for both of us to use that phrasing. However, ex-Presidents speaking in a capacity such as this, people that represent the whole of the country, can be taken to task for such a phrasing. A phrasing that I view as marginalizing a whole class of people, fellow Americans, and his constituants. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264.md?page=2)