# George H.W. Bush doesn't get it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 18, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264 "2005-09-18T21:42:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/41 "2005-09-19T02:43:22Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > For mentioning the word that shall never be said? NEIGHBOR!?!? You know damn well white people can’t go around using the n-word like that. 😉 You ought to tone it down, though. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/42 "2005-09-19T02:44:50Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Ya know what? You really are a fucking douchebag. Fuck you. Ya know what else? You apparently joined the OP in not realizing where this thread or your reply should go. It is _about_ to be moved to the **Pit** , but it is currently in **Great Debates** and you are out of line. Don’t let this happen again. You’ve been warned. [/Moderator Mode] ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/43 "2005-09-19T02:54:15Z")
Damnit. You’re right **tom**. I got caught up and let it go into pit-mode forgetting I was in GD. Warning noted and official apology offered. I’ll try to be more observant in the future. And apologies to anyone else upset this was sent to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/44 "2005-09-19T03:09:39Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > And apologies to anyone else upset this was sent to the Pit. It was about to be sent to the **Pit** before I saw your post. I really did not see much of a debate in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Blue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce73a5/32.png) [@Go\_Blue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Blue)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/45 "2005-09-19T03:15:38Z")
He was probably using the term neighbor in the standard Christian “every man is your neighbor and you should help him if you can” way. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/46 "2005-09-19T03:52:47Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Besides, would you want Poppy speaking extemporaneously? I didn’t think so. Clinton: “Hurricane Katrina devastated the lives of tens of thousands of Americans who need your help.” GHWB: “George Bush doesn’t care about black people.” Cut to Chris Tucker looking confused. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/47 "2005-09-19T03:54:23Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > It was about to be sent to the **Pit** before I saw your post. I really did not see much of a debate in the OP. Don’t suppose I can get that warning repealed? _wink, wink, nudge, nudge_ OK, I’ll note the warning. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/48 "2005-09-19T03:58:45Z")
Man, this is just dumb. Sorry, but the word “neighbor” is not exclusionary. It is, almost by definition, inclusive. Your neighbors are people in your neighborhood: people who are part of your immediate, physical community. Some sense of this may have been lost in recent decades with the rise of individual mobility, and even more recently with the explosion of electronic communications, but historically, your neighbors were the “us” in “us and them.” The only more intimate relationship would have been direct blood family, or marriage. When a president speaks of other nations as our “neighbors,” it is an attempt to invoke precisely this sense of community. There is absolutely no “mistake” in Bush’s word choice, here. It is both accurate and appropriately evocative, and was used to further a goal that is unquestionably noble. To criticize him in this is petty in the extreme, and only serves to undercut your credibility when you complain about genuine mistakes and misdeeds of George the Younger. God knows, I’m less likely to take any gripes you have about George W. seriously, and I’m starting from a positon of visceral, seething dislike of the man. ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/49 "2005-09-19T04:03:44Z")
I thought that it was pretty obvious that the word “neighbors” was meant to _emphasize_ the closeness between the victims of the hurricane and everyone else. “Fellow Americans” sounds distant, especially since it’s been used so often that it’s basically a cliché by now. The phrase “neighbors on the Gulf Coast” emphizes the idea of an American community, and suggests a close relationship between one part of the US and another. It emphasizes that these aren’t just faceless statistics, these are _people_ that we could easily _know_ or _be friends with_ if only things were a little different. When I first saw the ad, I actually noted the use of the word “neighbors” and thought that it was a particularly _good_ word to use in the current situation. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/50 "2005-09-19T04:09:22Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Ya know what else? You apparently joined the OP in not realizing where this thread or your reply should go. > > It is _about_ to be moved to the **Pit** , but it is currently in **Great Debates** and you are out of line. > > Don’t let this happen again. You’ve been warned. > > [/Moderator Mode] Um, just curious, before **duffer** ’s comments, what exactly about this thread was pit-worthy? I can’t take a position which states that GHW Bush said something that could be perceived as indicative of a greater bias? I suppose I called him a dumbass, but is calling a politician a dumbass considered pit-worthy these days? Or is it just because you decided the point was not worthy of debate and against your political views? I’m calling B/S on this, and I never said anything inflamitory to anyone in this thread, aside from the dumbass comment re: Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/51 "2005-09-19T04:15:22Z")
Here’s a clue for you Omniscient: Your asinine OP is Pitesque. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/52 "2005-09-19T04:17:40Z")
Not a mod, and may never have the temperence to be one. > [@Omniscient](#): > > Am I the only one who thinks this phrasing is another example of the Bush family’s inability to divest themselves from this “us and them” mentality. It’s embarassing This might be a clue. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/53 "2005-09-19T04:19:24Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Um, just curious, before **duffer** ’s comments, what exactly about this thread was pit-worthy? I think he’s right. You didn’t ask a question or suggest an issue. You just called GHWB clueless, a dumbass, an elitist, yada yada yada. I mean, look at your thread title. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/54 "2005-09-19T04:25:58Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I can’t take a position which states that GHW Bush said something that could be perceived as indicative of a greater bias? You can take whatever position you’d like on whatever issue you’d like. However, the contention that the use of the word _neighbor_ is divisive seems unsupportable from the outset and it looked much more like a (polite) Bush bashing post than an invitation to an actual debate. I am not challenging your motives, just disagreeing with your assessment of where the discussion belongs. As to my moving the thread because of any particular political bias: you’ll have to take that up with the posters who have already placed me among the lib’rul, Bush bashing, Fundamentalist baiting, God hating moderators. When you guys figure out which side I’m really on, let me know. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/55 "2005-09-19T04:28:02Z")
“Love thy neighbor as thyself.” - some us-and-them asshole. Oh, and, **Tom**? Vampire! You’re definitely a vampire, right? That’s a pretty cool side to be on. Or a ninja? Ninja vampire? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/56 "2005-09-19T04:32:19Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Oh, and, **Tom**? Vampire! You’re definitely a vampire, right? He wants you to think that, but really he’s a reverse vampire. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/57 "2005-09-19T04:34:28Z")
I inject blood into people? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/58 "2005-09-19T04:43:16Z")
Omni, the OP is stupid and you’re way off base on this one, but I’m curious. Would you have posted the same OP if William Jefferson had used the word “neighbors”? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/59 "2005-09-19T04:55:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think he’s right. You didn’t ask a question or suggest an issue. You just called GHWB clueless, a dumbass, an elitist, yada yada yada. I mean, look at your thread title. Well, I thought I pretty clearly articulated the point that Bush’s use of the word under these circumstances is a poor one. That it indicates he seeing the people of the gulf as being apart from those he represents. I realize its a pretty insubstantial point, and I realize that it’s not likely that any finality would be reached. Nonetheless, I think it’s worth noting, and I’d hoped the subject line would be invocative enough to generate views without being considered a flame. Why is it pit-worthy to argue that one of our presidents might have said something that indicates a bias? Sure, I made it clear in my OP that I have a pre-existing bias, but nonetheless I argued a point based on the details without taking opportunities to flame Bush. Aside from stating my opinion that the Bush family is prejudiced against those outside of their class, I never made a point of piling on either Bush. Frankly I went out of my way to debate on the minutiae of the topic without bringing up outside, Bush-bashing commentary. Look, if you think I have no point on it’s face, fine. Dismiss it outright as a few have done. To call this a pitting (someplace I have rarely, if ever, dwelt) seems slanted. Though, I can see how no debate upon any topic involving the Bush family could remain elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/60 "2005-09-19T05:11:14Z")
Why? Because your interpretation of the simple word _neighbor_ is, to be blunt, from another galaxy. Your inane assertion that his use of the word _neighbor_ is bad form is itself a flame. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264.md?page=4)