# George H.W. Bush doesn't get it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 18, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264 "2005-09-18T21:42:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/61 "2005-09-19T05:11:50Z")
> [@omniscient](#): > > I suppose you can just shut up and excuse things like this during such a dire situation, but I’d rather not be jingoistic. I don’t personally see that calling out your leaders for **mistakes** is ever out of place, many may argue that in times of great need it becomes even more important that you hold the leadership to a high standard. (bolding mine) 99.9999% of the rational world does not think the use of the word neighbor was a mistake. You’re all alooone out there… ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/62 "2005-09-19T05:15:40Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Omni, the OP is stupid and you’re way off base on this one, but I’m curious. Would you have posted the same OP if William Jefferson had used the word “neighbors”? To be honest, I’d have thought it, but I wouldn’t have posted it. Primarily because I don’t feel that there’s anything in WJ Clinton’s leadership which shows a larger bias. Also, because I wouldn’t have the motivation to maintain the position. I’ve never asserted that _this_ is the sin. I’ve asserted that this is one subtle indicator of the bias which others have spent considerable effort to accuse and substantiate. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/63 "2005-09-19T05:17:09Z")
From Road Warrior: > [@The Humungus](#): > > There has been too much violence, too much pain […] Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/64 "2005-09-19T05:17:18Z")
> [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > (bolding mine) > > 99.9999% of the rational world does not think the use of the word neighbor was a mistake. > You’re all alooone out there… Cite? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/65 "2005-09-19T05:19:09Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Am I the only one who thinks this phrasing is another example of the Bush family’s inability to divest themselves from this “us and them” mentality. It’s embarassing Quick – call Oliver Stone and see if he’ll make a movie about it. **Reeder** can help write the screenplay. I seriously doubt that Clinton and Bush wrote the script of the PSA. Not that it really matters. Lots of people would consider people who live in neighboring states (or neighboring cities, or hell, anywhere nearby) to be their “neighbors” in a general sense of the word. Much ado about nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/66 "2005-09-19T05:21:14Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Your inane assertion that his use of the word _neighbor_ is bad form is itself a flame. It is? That’s a pretty thin standard there, think I can find any other GD threads in which the initial premise is pretty pedantic and/or unpopular (and certainly many that are asinine) which don’t involve politics, but managed to avoid a pitting. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/67 "2005-09-19T05:27:46Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You can take whatever position you’d like on whatever issue you’d like. However, the contention that the use of the word _neighbor_ is divisive seems unsupportable from the outset and it looked much more like a (polite) Bush bashing post than an invitation to an actual debate. I am not challenging your motives, just disagreeing with your assessment of where the discussion belongs. Well, if it were simply unsupportable and not an invitation for debate then the appropriate place for it would have been IMHO. By sticking it in the pit, you made a de facto judgement on my motives. I take issue with that. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/68 "2005-09-19T05:29:19Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Why is it pit-worthy to argue that one of our presidents might have said something that indicates a bias? Sure, I made it clear in my OP that I have a pre-existing bias, but nonetheless I argued a point based on the details without taking opportunities to flame Bush. Aside from stating my opinion that the Bush family is prejudiced against those outside of their class, I never made a point of piling on either Bush. > > Frankly I went out of my way to debate on the minutiae of the topic without bringing up outside, Bush-bashing commentary. > > Look, if you think I have no point on it’s face, fine. Dismiss it outright as a few have done. To call this a pitting (someplace I have rarely, if ever, dwelt) seems slanted. Though, I can see how no debate upon any topic involving the Bush family could remain elsewhere. “Does Bush suck, or what?” is not a valid debate topic. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/69 "2005-09-19T05:30:23Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > It is? That’s a pretty thin standard there, think I can find any other GD threads in which the initial premise is pretty pedantic and/or unpopular (and certainly many that are asinine) which don’t involve politics, but managed to avoid a pitting. Pedantic? You truly are unaware of the meanings of words, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/70 "2005-09-19T05:31:52Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Well, I thought I pretty clearly articulated the point that Bush’s use of the word under these circumstances is a poor one. That it indicates he seeing the people of the gulf as being apart from those he represents. Your point was articulated, it’s just not much of a point for debate. Even you haven’t supported it well. When I asked you for more proof that Bush has trouble thinking of people outside his social stratum, you didn’t offer a single example or policy or comment. So your whole stupid point is based on the word “neighbor.” > [@](#): > > Why is it pit-worthy to argue that one of our presidents might have said something that indicates a bias? Quit it with this victim bullshit. If you hadn’t chosen a comment that was so fabulously nitpicky, perhaps this could have stayed in GD. I think you should consider more fully, even though you’ve admitted it somewhat, just how mind-bogglingly trivial your point really is. Not only are you attributing thoughts to Bush based on a statement he probably didn’t write, but you’ve chosen to talk about what a bad guy he is based a statement from a public service announcement made to benefit hurricane victims. Your premise is apparently “Bush is an elitist, and his use of the word “neighbors” in the commercial is proof.” I don’t think it’s possible to argue in favor of this idea without sounding like an idiot. It’s fucking stupid, and it’s hard to even respond to without saying something along the lines of “are you shitting me?” So it’s a good thing that it’s in the Pit, where we can actually ask “Are you shitting me, **Omniscient**?” instead of just implying it. > [@](#): > > Though, I can see how no debate upon any topic involving the Bush family could remain elsewhere. Many Bush-related topics have managed to stay in GD. I suggest you start reading them to figure out why this one didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/71 "2005-09-19T05:31:53Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Cite? 😉 The responses your premise has garnered. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/72 "2005-09-19T05:37:48Z")
Another Bush Hater[sup]TM[/sup] checking in to say that, regardless of forum, Omni is way off base here. Carry on, neighbors. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/73 "2005-09-19T05:46:12Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Pedantic? You truly are unaware of the meanings of words, aren’t you? > [@Wiktionary](#): > > pedantic > > Adjective > pedantic (more pedantic, most pedantic) > > [ol] > [li]\*like a pedant, overly concerned with formal rules and trivial points of learning. \*[/li][li]Being showy of one’s knowledge, often in a boring manner. [/li][li]Often used to describe a person who emphasizes their knowledge through the use of vocabulary. [/li][/ol] Seen quite a few people calling my point trivial, I’d say my assessment of the majority definition of my argument was pretty spot on. Thanks for your oh-so-helpful commentary. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/74 "2005-09-19T05:49:40Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > “Does Bush suck, or what?” is not a valid debate topic. Not to imply that my OP was nearly so vague and base, but yeah, it is, assuming of course the context of the premise offers a positon that lacks invective dialogue. Granted I don’t make the rules, but that’s my understanding of them. Apparently I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/75 "2005-09-19T05:51:35Z")
> [@Pashnish Ewing](#): > > Carry on, neighbors. Why do you hate children?!? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/76 "2005-09-19T05:56:09Z")
I was watching the Raider Game today, and there was an ad for some upcoming program to raise money for Katrina victims. The voice for the commercial (not Bush) called it something like “help our neighbors in New Orleans”. Sounds like a nice aliterative catch-phrase and my guess is that it’s a common theme used in relief efforts. The OP is out of his mind if he thinks this is a slight from Bush Sr. It’s not too late to admit a mistake, **Omniscient**. None of us is omniscient, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/77 "2005-09-19T05:58:42Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I was watching the Raider Game today, and there was an ad for some upcoming program to raise money for Katrina victims. The voice for the commercial (not Bush) called it something like “help our neighbors in New Orleans”. Sounds like a nice aliterative catch-phrase and my guess is that it’s a common theme used in relief efforts. During the game, Mike Tirico said something about helping “our friends in New Orleans.” The bastard. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/78 "2005-09-19T06:01:04Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Not to imply that my OP was nearly so vague and base, but yeah, it is, assuming of course the context of the premise offers a positon that lacks invective dialogue. Granted I don’t make the rules, but that’s my understanding of them. Apparently I’m wrong. Well, yeah, it was base, and not so vague. You hate Bush. We’ve seen it. And much more creatively than this. Invective? You have less creativity then me in coming up with an OP. And that’s just wrong. Yes. Yes you are wrong. Find your skateboard and head back to the mall, when come back bring anger. You have potential, Padawan. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/79 "2005-09-19T06:01:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Quit it with this victim bullshit. No victim bullshit. If you take a moment to assess the tone of the replies which my thread has garnered since **duffer’s** comments and it’s subsequent placement in the pit, you’ll see that it’s totally been reduced from a discussion to a forum to sling personal pot-shots. There’s a reason I kept it out of the pit both originally and in the tone of my retorts, because intelligent discussion ceases in the pit. Frankly, it’d have been just as productive for my goal of arguing the point if it’d been deleted. It certainly might be nitpicky, and I’d have debated that fact gladly. I could be off-base, but now it’s unlikely anyone will be persuaded of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264/80 "2005-09-19T06:04:39Z")
Yet again, Ominiscient, you’ve missed the point. You may consider your OP pedantic; however, the reality is that it’s inane, if not even insane. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-doesnt-get-it/322264.md?page=5)