# George Orwell's other, longer essay on British cookery **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 14, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-orwells-other-longer-essay-on-british-cookery/752211 "2016-04-14T18:40:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-orwells-other-longer-essay-on-british-cookery/752211/21 "2016-04-17T18:38:16Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Russia or Florida? :dubious: Florida. And Orwell writes that Brits sometimes eat kidneys at **breakfast!** :eek: BTW, does anyone know what Orwell means by this? > [@](#): > > At normal times the average consumption of sugar per head is very much higher than in most countries, and all British children and a large proportion of adults are over-much given to eating sweets between meals. . . . Part of the trouble is that alcohol, even beer, is fantastically expensive and has therefore come to be looked on as a luxury to be drunk in moments of relaxation, not as an integral part of the meal. šŸ˜• Iā€™ve never before seen it suggested that sugar and alcohol are substitutes for each other, or somehow serve the same dietary need. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-orwells-other-longer-essay-on-british-cookery/752211/22 "2016-04-17T21:24:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Iā€™ve never before seen it suggested that sugar and alcohol are substitutes for each other, or somehow serve the same dietary need. The sentence after your quote explains it: **The majority of people drink sweetened teas with at least two of their daily meals, and it is therefore only natural that they should want the food itself to taste excessively sweet.** ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-orwells-other-longer-essay-on-british-cookery/752211/23 "2016-04-17T21:35:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > šŸ˜• Iā€™ve never before seen it suggested that sugar and alcohol are substitutes for each other, or somehow serve the same dietary need. Iā€™m not sure if Iā€™ve seen it suggested either, but I do think they serve the same dietary need: empty calories. If a given person had several hundred high-quality calories of meat and vegetables a day, but _nothing else_, and a control person had several hundred high-quality calories a day and supplemented that with several hundred calories of either sugar or alcohol, Iā€™d bet the sugar and alcohol consumers would be healthier after a few months (because it is not healthy to live on less than 1000 calories a day). So, _given healthy water_, watered-down kool-aid would probably be of similar nutritional value to medieval subsistence farmers who usually drank watery beer at meals and which probably thus had at least a hundred if not more needed empty calories a day. ---
**Author:** ![bmoak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@bmoak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-orwells-other-longer-essay-on-british-cookery/752211/24 "2016-04-18T00:05:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Vindaloo is the new fish & chips. > > Oh, and thereā€™s this: > > I tried that once at a British-themed pub-restaurant in St. Petersburg. It was like liver to the tenth power. I was still tasting it the next day, and not in a good way. Acquired taste, I guess. Kidneys shouldnā€™t taste like that, but they have to be properly prepared (peel outer membrane, rinse thoroughly, trim, and soak in milk). Otherwise, they will taste awful. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-orwells-other-longer-essay-on-british-cookery/752211/25 "2016-04-18T01:08:29Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > So, _given healthy water_, watered-down kool-aid would probably be of similar nutritional value to medieval subsistence farmers who usually drank watery beer at meals and which probably thus had at least a hundred if not more needed empty calories a day. Good beer is hardly ā€œempty calories.ā€ Beermaking (and wine- and cidermaking, for that matter) was a way of using up agricultural surplus that otherwise would have rotted. Thereā€™s a lot of food value in good beer; at its best, itā€™s like liquid bread, which makes having it for breakfast (and most other meals) entirely practical. Also, as you imply, drinking beer (or any other alcoholic beverage) was at one time much safer than drinking water (and still is, in many parts of the world). Keep in mind too that even today, the average farmer burns **a lot** of calories in the course of a day, as do workers in many other traditional professions. All that alcohol would not necessarily have gone to fat and flab. People who live in real beer cultures (e.g., Britain, Ireland, Germany) appreciate this, just like the French, Italians, and Spanish understand the virtues of good wine. Americans, whose beer is generally like piss water, have no clue as to what Iā€™m talking about. (This is ironic, since the United States was a nation of drunkards until the coming of the railroads, which made it much easier to get agricultural surplus to market.) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-orwells-other-longer-essay-on-british-cookery/752211/26 "2016-04-18T04:13:34Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > People who live in real beer cultures (e.g., Britain, Ireland, Germany) appreciate this, just like the French, Italians, and Spanish understand the virtues of good wine. Americans, whose beer is generally like piss water, have no clue as to what Iā€™m talking about. (This is ironic, since the United States was a nation of drunkards until the coming of the railroads, which made it much easier to get agricultural surplus to market.) So-called ā€˜domesticā€™ (name-brand) beer is that way. In the last couple of decades, though, competing beers and ales have started popping up. Samuel Adams would be one of the best examples of that. And then there are the microbreweries; it seems like every major city has a number of local ones now. IPAā€™s, Hefs, Bocks, and other more traditional European-style brews are commonly available now, not to mention imports. And I have to get in my cultural plug: Guinness Extra Stout is God. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-orwells-other-longer-essay-on-british-cookery/752211/27 "2016-04-18T11:42:18Z")
> [@bmoak](#): > > Kidneys shouldnā€™t taste like that, but they have to be properly prepared (peel outer membrane, rinse thoroughly, trim, and soak in milk). Otherwise, they will taste awful. They have to be thoroughly cooked. In fact, you have to cook the piss out of them. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-orwells-other-longer-essay-on-british-cookery/752211/28 "2016-04-18T13:03:24Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > So-called ā€˜domesticā€™ (name-brand) beer is that way. In the last couple of decades, though, competing beers and ales have started popping up. Samuel Adams would be one of the best examples of that. And then there are the microbreweries; it seems like every major city has a number of local ones now. IPAā€™s, Hefs, Bocks, and other more traditional European-style brews are commonly available now, not to mention imports. Iā€™ve had some of these; they are, of course, much better than so-called ā€œdomesticā€ beer. The Czechs are another great beer-drinking nation. It seems every small town has its own brewery, and the dark beers in particular are outstanding! The Slovaks, on the other hand, are another great wine-drinking people, with a somewhat different mentality, naturally. Could be one reason why theyā€™re no longer one country. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-orwells-other-longer-essay-on-british-cookery/752211/29 "2016-04-18T13:24:11Z")
> [@bmoak](#): > > Kidneys shouldnā€™t taste like that, but they have to be properly prepared (peel outer membrane, rinse thoroughly, trim, and soak in milk). Otherwise, they will taste awful. They should be cooked along with bacon, a dash of Worcestershire sauce, a bit of tomato paste, and some English mustard. Yum-O! :o ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-orwells-other-longer-essay-on-british-cookery/752211/30 "2016-04-18T15:13:30Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > And I have to get in my cultural plug: Guinness Extra Stout is God. šŸ˜ƒ Yes, itā€™s not beer if you canā€™t eat it with a fork! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-orwells-other-longer-essay-on-british-cookery/752211/31 "2016-04-18T22:05:27Z")
Wait, hereā€™s a curious oversight: > [@](#): > > But though the name and the hour may differ, every British personā€™s idea of midday meal is approximately the same. We are not here concerned with the quasi-French meals that are served in hotels, but solely with British cookery, and therefore we can leave both soups and hors dā€™oeuvres out of account. Most British people are inclined to despise both, and do not care for them in the middle of the day. British soups are seldom good, and **there is hardly a single one that is peculiar to the British Isles,** while even the word ā€œhors dā€™oeuvreā€ has no equivalent in the British language. What about cock-a-leekie soup? AIUI, it ranks with haggis as a national dish of Scotland. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-orwells-other-longer-essay-on-british-cookery/752211/32 "2016-04-18T22:18:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What about cock-a-leekie soup? A chicken, leek and oats/rice/whatever filler soup isnā€™t going to be unique to any single country, now is it? Fuck knows what Orwell is banging on about in large parts of this essay. The soup stuff is just bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-orwells-other-longer-essay-on-british-cookery/752211/33 "2016-04-21T15:24:20Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > People who live in real beer cultures (e.g., Britain, Ireland, Germany) appreciate this, just like the French, Italians, and Spanish understand the virtues of good wine. Americans, whose beer is generally like piss water, have no clue as to what Iā€™m talking about. (This is ironic, since the United States was a nation of drunkards until the coming of the railroads, which made it much easier to get agricultural surplus to market.) Ireland is not a real beer culture at all, or at least wasnā€™t until about 10 years ago and the start of the craft beer boom. Now insufferable beer snobbery is mandatory. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-orwells-other-longer-essay-on-british-cookery/752211/34 "2016-04-21T16:26:52Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Ireland is not a real beer culture at all, or at least wasnā€™t until about 10 years ago and the start of the craft beer boom. Guinness is only ten years old??? :dubious: šŸ˜• ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-orwells-other-longer-essay-on-british-cookery/752211/35 "2016-04-21T16:40:42Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Americans, whose beer is generally like piss water, have no clue as to what Iā€™m talking about. ) It sounds to me like you havenā€™t been in America for about twenty years or so. America is probably the center of modern beer culture now. Thereā€™s about 3000 breweries here. [Chicago itself has almost 70 now, not counting the suburbs.](http://thehopreview.com/blog/chicago-brewery-list) ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2016, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-orwells-other-longer-essay-on-british-cookery/752211/36 "2016-04-24T09:51:32Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Guinness is only ten years old??? :dubious: šŸ˜• Does one drink make a culture? At least in my generation Guinness has never been as popular as Budweiser, Heineken, Carlsberg etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-orwells-other-longer-essay-on-british-cookery/752211.md?page=1)