# George R.R. Martin's querky English **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 8, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248 "2011-07-08T00:14:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/21 "2011-07-08T15:48:06Z")
I thought the occasional references to “striped zorses” were an example of this sort of thing, but it turns out there [really is such a thing as a zorse](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1408717.stm). ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/22 "2011-07-08T15:50:24Z")
It may be grammatically correct, but every time I hit a “must needs”, I feel like all my hair’s been rubbed the wrong way. Is there something wrong with just “must”? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/23 "2011-07-08T15:58:01Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > The nuncle thing really annoys me because he didn’t start using it until Feast for Crows. Up til then everyone uses uncle, so it was jarring for me - I thought at first that my copy was full of typos. I hear you. I found it both annoying and jarring in _King Lear_, and I like it no better in Martin’s writing. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/24 "2011-07-08T16:03:14Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I just assumed it was an Iron Islands idiom, since Asha is really the only one who uses it, IIRC. EVERYONE uses it in Crows, which is how I figured out it wasn’t a weird typo. I wouldn’t have minded it so much if Martin had been consistent about it, but why he decided to use that term mid-series is a mystery. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/25 "2011-07-08T16:12:26Z")
If you don’t like Martin’s language use, best avoid Neal Stephenson’s Anathem\*. > [@](#): > > Fraa Erasmas is a young avout living in the Concent of Saunt Edhar, a sanctuary for mathematicians, scientists, and philosophers, protected from the corrupting influences of the outside saecular world. I enjoyed it, though. As I do GRRM. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/26 "2011-07-08T16:49:22Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I like Martin’s naming. > > Way better than Steven Erikson’s Malazan books: > > I like it when I can determine gender from a name, but are these male or female (or other)? > > K’azz D’Avore, Lorn, Tattersail, Onos T’oolan > > Here are some of his races: > > T’lan Imass, K’Chain Che’Malle, Forkrul Assail > > Do they evoke anything? They’re unrelatable. > > And the apostrophes – gah. I’m ~450 pages into **The Cippled God** , so I’ve grown used to it. At first, I hated the soldiering names given to characters by their squads, but I’ve learned to at least ignore that, too. His writing and the story make up for it, though 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/27 "2011-07-08T17:30:07Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I like Martin’s naming. > > Way better than Steven Erikson’s Malazan books: > > I like it when I can determine gender from a name, but are these male or female (or other)? > > K’azz D’Avore, Lorn, Tattersail, Onos T’oolan > > Here are some of his races: > > T’lan Imass, K’Chain Che’Malle, Forkrul Assail > > Do they evoke anything? They’re unrelatable. > > And the apostrophes – gah. I loved when one random grunt refered to the Forkrul Assail as “that’s one of them fuckeralls”, i liked that even the people in his world had trouble with those words. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/28 "2011-07-08T18:39:04Z")
> [@Jules\_Andre](#): > > My biggest pet peeve was “gaoler” instead of “jailer.” He’s an american author, writing about a not-Britain place. My understanding is that the place is very Britain-like. Haven’t I read that Westeros is basically Britain stretched out to the size of South America? In any case, when writing a Mediaeval-ish fantasy, it seems to me entirely appropriate to imagine that any English-speaking society will be Britishy. > [@Max\_Torque](#): > > It may be grammatically correct, but every time I hit a “must needs”, I feel like all my hair’s been rubbed the wrong way. Is there something wrong with just “must”? Again, I think he’s intentionally using obsolete syntax. It adds to the fantasy nature of the story, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![prodicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d9b06d/32.png) [@prodicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/prodicus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/29 "2011-07-08T18:56:12Z")
Forget all that, the thing that stood out most to me was that at one point in the first book, he refers to Hodor carrying an anvil on his shoulder “as easily as he would a bale of hay”. He later refers to him picking up the crippled, and now very thin and emaciated Bran “as easily as he would a bale of hay”. I had a good chuckle thinking that he should have instead said that he lifted Bran “as easily as he would an anvil”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/30 "2011-07-08T20:52:25Z")
> [@prodicus](#): > > he refers to Hodor carrying an anvil on his shoulder “as easily as he would a bale of hay”. You know…a good sized bale of hay is actually pretty heavy and probably weighs more than I do. Of course, a small bale of really dry hay might only weigh 50 pounds. I’ll give credit for Bran weighing 100 pounds or so when Hodor picks him up (probably an overestimate, given his weak legs), so picking him up as easily as a bale of hay isn’t too shocking - he should be lighter than the bale. I suppose GRRM hasn’t tossed many bales around. Actually, I hope he avoids overly strenuous physical activity and just gets to finishing the friggin’ books. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/31 "2011-07-08T21:11:59Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I’ll give credit for Bran weighing 100 pounds or so when Hodor picks him up (probably an overestimate, given his weak legs), so picking him up as easily as a bale of hay isn’t too shocking - he should be lighter than the bale. I think a seven-year-old who weighed as much as 100 pounds would be remarkable, especially considering the fact that his agemate Tommen being chubby was noted several times. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/32 "2011-07-08T21:14:37Z")
I think Bran was 10 or 11 in the story…not 7. He’s ‘almost a man grown’ when he falls, and he must have been fairly well muscled (before the fall) to do all the stuff he was able to do (plus his training with bow and sword and shield). -XT ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/33 "2011-07-08T21:24:34Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I think Bran was 10 or 11 in the story…not 7. He’s ‘almost a man grown’ when he falls, and he must have been fairly well muscled (before the fall) to do all the stuff he was able to do (plus his training with bow and sword and shield). He’s seven. It’s mentioned in the first paragraph of chapter one in Game of Thrones: “It was the ninth year of the summer and the seventh of Bran’s life.” Robert’s party shows up in Winterfell only a few pages later. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/34 "2011-07-08T21:27:22Z")
I must be misremembering or conflating the books with the series. I thought he was older than 7. -XT ---
**Author:** ![With\_Rye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@With\_Rye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/With_Rye)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/35 "2011-07-09T00:01:24Z")
I like books that do this. The language is just slightly off to let you know that you’re not in Kansas anymore but isn’t so strange that it becomes a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Electric\_Warrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Electric\_Warrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electric_Warrior)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/36 "2011-07-09T00:52:28Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I must be misremembering or conflating the books with the series. I thought he was older than 7. > > -XT Yes, the TV series states him as 10 years old (and it’s his response to Jaime Lannister asking him his age in the abandoned tower, which is “seven” in the book). > [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > I thought the occasional references to “striped zorses” were an example of this sort of thing, but it turns out there [really is such a thing as a zorse](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1408717.stm). Getting a tad off topic but this reminded me of my discovery that dire wolves (with the space in) [[del]are[/del] were real too](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dire_wolf)! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/37 "2011-07-09T00:59:40Z")
> [@Electric\_Warrior](#): > > Getting a tad off topic but this reminded me of my discovery that dire wolves (with the space in) [[del]are[/del] were real too](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dire_wolf)! Disappointingly small, though. I mean, they were the size of a large dog, but no where near big enough to carry an orc. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/38 "2011-07-09T01:00:28Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Some are contrived though: Jaime and Kevan instead of Jamie and Kevin, or Robett instead of Robert. > [@Athena](#): > > I get the other two, but I know people named “Jaime”, pronounced just like GoT Jaime. Doesn’t seem contrived to me, just an alternate spelling. I know a Kevan. His dad from Scotland. ---
**Author:** ![LVBoPeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@LVBoPeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVBoPeep)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/39 "2011-07-09T01:16:46Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > I get the other two, but I know people named “Jaime”, pronounced just like GoT Jaime. Doesn’t seem contrived to me, just an alternate spelling. > > . I happen to be one of those people. ---
**Author:** ![Bengis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Bengis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bengis)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248/40 "2013-06-01T12:12:42Z")
I kinda like the quirks…keeps you on your toes to spot the historical reference points. …Lets not forget the marriage between Gioffre Borgia and Sancha (of Aragon) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-r-r-martins-querky-english/588248.md?page=3)