# George Rekers' former organization: DADT repeal will lead to rampant raping **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 27, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998 "2010-05-27T21:32:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/41 "2010-05-28T15:41:22Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > The classes of things that he was calling rape, would seem to be more along the lines of fratboy pranks (teabagging and the like). I was going to say something, but…nah, too easy. ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/42 "2010-05-28T15:42:11Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I have often thought that the reason some heterosexual service men are against openly gay service men among their ranks is they are afraid gay service men will treat them the way they have treated their female comrades. I’ve heard that argued about male homophobes in general. Certainly it’s not true in _every_ case, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it were a contributing factor. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/43 "2010-05-28T15:47:59Z")
Tom Cruise thunders at Jack Nicholson: “Did you order a Code Head?” “You’re damn right I did!” ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/44 "2010-05-28T16:20:56Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > If I could derail a Pit thread with an actual thought for a second, I would speculate that, in fact, that same sex sexual assault in the military is more prevelant than opposite sex sexual assault. The reason is simply that there are many, many more males to victimize than females, and that “rape”, especially male on male, has little to nothing to do with actual sexual preference. > > I could spend a few paragraphs expounding on same sex sexual assaults rarely having anything to do with sexual orientation, but, in all honesty, DADT isn’t worth a single finger click let alone actual rational thought. To analyze this line of, uhmmm, reasoning logically, a few factors you seem to be forgetting have to be included. Although there may appear to be proportionately more potential victims within the environment under discussion, you need to look at the _potential number of victimizers_ and their psychology. There are several factors that make it highly unlikely that the proportion of potential gay victimizers would be the same as or even greater than those that rape in the general population, including the fact that there are so few gay men compared to straight men. Mainly, you have to look at the propensity of gay man to rape in the general population. I’m not saying gay men don’t rape, but the statistics will show that number to be far fewer proportionately than straight male rape. Moving on from there, even if you factor in the effects of and fallout from living in close quarters, and sexual deprivation for all male military population, ask yourself: (i) What would lead a gay male who entered the military knowing he has to hide his sexuality to not only out himself, but to out himself in a way that would likely lead to, if not severe retaliation among the enlisted men, official expulsion and rape charges? (ii) Wouldn’t the dynamics affecting the potential for rape when comparing male-female rape and male-male rape have an effect on that potential? You mention discounting the orientation of the rapist, but you’ve also discounted not only that rape has very little to do with desire but also the known facts about the power dynamics at work in rape. Those dynamics for male-female aren’t nearly as prevalent, pervasive or applicable when in your fantasy about male-male rape. The above makes the potential for male-male rape extremely unlikely and logically leads to a significantly lower number proportionately for military male-male rape than that of military male-female rape. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/45 "2010-05-28T17:32:17Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Doesn’t he mean **more** rampant raping? Or does it only count if it happens to men? Either way, he is safe, who’d want to do that goofy looking sumbitch? Poor bastard will probably die a virgin (fake alligator tears) ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/46 "2010-05-28T19:16:51Z")
> [@Small\_Hen](#): > > DADT or not, I’m pretty sure that when you gather beer and young men en mass, something will happen to the first sleeping man, and it will involve someone’s genitals. As I understand it they generally shave them. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/47 "2010-05-28T20:11:19Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Tom Cruise thunders at Jack Nicholson: > > “Did you order a Code Head?” > > “You’re damn right I did!” “You _CAN’T HANDLE THE GLUTES_!” ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/48 "2010-05-28T20:17:12Z")
> [@jk1245](#): > > Actually by the look of that guy in the article , a more accurate headline might be that they are _hoping_ that will be the case. Yep. That chap _so_ pings the 'dar. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/49 "2010-05-28T20:21:05Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > As I understand it they generally shave them. So you’re saying the next time I need a little manscaping, I should get drunk and pass out in a barracks somewhere? Good to know. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/50 "2010-05-28T20:31:05Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > From what I’ve heard, yes. I recall reading a news story a while back about American female soldiers in Iraq being told to be armed at all times and to travel in groups due to the high risk of rape by their fellow soldiers. And that some were suffering from dehydration do to avoiding the water supplies, because that was a favored place for rapists to lie in wait. Unless you can find some reliable sources for that, that sounds just a bit over the top. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/51 "2010-05-28T20:37:55Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Of course they are. If they weren’t I wouldn’t have all these DVDs showing scenes of where the soldiers are drinking beers and then one thing leads to another and suddenly they’re all having sex with each other, would I? If you could believe everything that happens in porn, “Pizza Delivery Guy” would be the world’s most sought after job. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/52 "2010-05-28T22:03:29Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > If you could believe everything that happens in porn, “Pizza Delivery Guy” would be the world’s most sought after job. My fantasies are fragile - please handle them with care. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/53 "2010-05-28T22:28:01Z")
The posters who described Rekers’ and Black’s “homosexual rape” as drunken pranks are right on. I was in the Army Infantry for 3 years, and I can’t TELL you how many times I’ve seen guys teabagged in their sleep (or other such sophomoric horsing around). It’s just a nasty type of hazing…calling it sexual assault would be a stretch. Rape? Uh-uh. Don’t buy it. I wonder what these anti-gay blokes would have to say about what goes on in frat houses after a few cases/kegs have been consumed? I’ve been hoping for the repeal of DADT for 16 years. One of the best, toughest, most disciplined, most masculine, most mature and mot squared-away squadmates I ever had, set off my gaydar BIG time. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/54 "2010-05-28T22:51:25Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Germany has raped France numerous times. And Greece helped. ETA: Damn you, Polycarp! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/55 "2010-05-28T23:01:13Z")
Seconded. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/56 "2010-05-28T23:10:31Z")
The Economists’s Democracy in America blog [has an item today](http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/05/dadt_repeal) pointing out a major flaw in FRC’s logic: > [@](#): > > The report says that of 1,643 sexual assaults in the military in FY 2009, 8.2% were homosexual, the overwhelming majority male-on-male. Since less than 3% of those in the general population self-identify as homosexual, the report argues, “this suggests that homosexuals in the military are about three times more likely to commit sexual assaults than heterosexuals are, relative to their numbers.” > > What’s silly about this claim? Let’s put it this way: 100% of the sexual assaults in the male cellblocks in Rikers Island prison in FY 2009 were homosexual in nature. Does this suggest that homosexuals in prison are infinitely more likely than heterosexuals to commit sexual assault? ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/57 "2010-05-29T05:12:02Z")
> [@descamisado](#): > > This statistic was just pulled out of his ass. (referring to the statistic that homosexuals in the military are three times as likely to commit sexual assault) From way up in his ass, at that. Here’s his “reasoning”: 8.2% of reported sexual assaults among the military were same-sex–7.55% man-on-man, 0.61% woman-on-woman. Therefore, 8.2% of people in the military who commit sexual assault are homosexuals. Homosexuals make up 3% of the overall population, he says, and therefore homosexuals are 8.2/3 times more likely to commit sexual assault than you’d expect. It’s hard to find a place to start peeling that orange of bullshit. For one thing, 3% is the low-end estimate of homosexuals in the population, especially once you include everyone with bi tendencies. For another, just because a sexual assault is man-on-man it doesn’t mean it’s perpetrated by someone who identifies as gay (or would if he could). For yet another, you wouldn’t expect the population of homosexuals who join the military to be a perfect analogue to the population as a whole. In fact, even if you accept his superhuman leaps of logic and his conclusion, a much better explanation would be that the current DADT policy keeps the most honorable and law-abiding homosexuals out and the ones that do join up are disproportionately degenerates. It makes me mad when people lie with statistics. It makes me stabbily furious when people barely put any effort into lying with statistics, because they know their audience is too stupid to realize it or so eager to accept it that they won’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/58 "2010-05-29T05:22:36Z")
> [@Cyningablod](#): > > The posters who described Rekers’ and Black’s “homosexual rape” as drunken pranks are right on. I was in the Army Infantry for 3 years, and I can’t TELL you how many times I’ve seen guys teabagged in their sleep (or other such sophomoric horsing around). It’s just a nasty type of hazing…calling it sexual assault would be a stretch. Rape? Uh-uh. Don’t buy it. Sebastian Junger, who has written[a book](http://www.amazon.com/WAR-Sebastian-Junger/dp/0446556246) about the 14 months he spent with troops in Afghanistan, was a guest on _The Daily Show_ last week and discussed the hazing ritual of _Blood In/Blood Out_- basically getting clobbered by every man in your squad (unless you’re injured in a firefight). He said he pins much of this on just sheer boredom, though of course such fraternal rites have existed for thousands of years. (Read page 217 of the preview from that for an odd comment about gay sex; I’d cut and paste but since it’s a scan it won’t let me.) I would guess- based on no evidence I’ll admit- that the most homophobic soldiers would probably be the under 21 crowd who’ve had little exposure to gays and think they’re all effeminate promiscuous stereotypes. While I’ve nothing against the effeminate I seriously doubt many would ever consider going into active service. Since less than 1% of sexual assault was woman on woman even though in general women are more likely to experiment with same sex sexuality than men, I wonder what excuse the FRC would give for wanting to ban lesbians from serving openly. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/59 "2010-05-29T05:36:19Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > …0.61% woman-on-woman. … I’m going to hell for asking this, but my chances were never all that great anyways… How does a lesbian commit “rape” on an unwilling victim? I can certainly see thwarted attraction leading to something akin to harassment, but violent physical assault? Doesn’t make sense, simply on the basis of, well, apparatus. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998/60 "2010-05-29T05:38:46Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’m going to hell for asking this, but my chances were never all that great anyways… > > How does a lesbian commit “rape” on an unwilling victim? I can certainly see thwarted attraction leading to something akin to harassment, but violent physical assault? Doesn’t make sense, simply on the basis of, well, apparatus. Basically severe sexual harassment, groping, inappropriate touching, the assailant rubbing herself on the other woman’s face, etc.. I think it’d be difficult to force cunnilingus on somebody or force somebody to perform cunnilingus without a weapon or a second assailant, but the rest could be done. Moreso if the assailant ranks the assailed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-rekers-former-organization-dadt-repeal-will-lead-to-rampant-raping/540998.md?page=4)