# George Soros Throws Down Against Bush **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 12, 2003, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728 "2003-11-12T01:05:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/21 "2003-11-12T15:20:34Z")
Ugh, what an ugly business. A currency speculator creates genuine suffering in _eg._ Britain by causing mass job losses and wiping out pension savings by driving the economy through the floor. He then donates some of this money to help people even _more_ in need in the Third World. Hmm, well, OK, I’ll go along with that given my global utilitarian principles. He then looks with disgust upon the plutocracy the US has become and vows to use his wealth to oust the plutocrat-in-chief, thus engaging in blatant plutocratic behaviour _himself_. **An upper threshold for a campaign budget, anyone?** Oh, but I was forgetting. The ones in a position to impose such a threshold would be the ones who had won the fundraising game at the last campaign, winning only on the understanding that such a threshold would _not_ be imposed. Another revolution on this carousel will probably make me sick. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/22 "2003-11-12T16:27:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SentientMeat \* > \*\* > A currency speculator creates genuine suffering in _eg._ Britain by causing mass job losses and wiping out pension savings by driving the economy through the floor. \*\* No, the BOE created the problem by defending the BP in the first place. If England had to keep rates high to be eligible for entrance in the ERM they’d have really been fucked. Did you see how fast they cut rates when relieved of the burden of potentially being the odd man out? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/23 "2003-11-12T16:31:44Z")
Rich people have always tried to influence campaigns through money. Jane Fonda, and Haim Saban have given millions to Dimocrat causes over the past decade and has not done them much good. McGovern had several very rich men backing his campaign and he got clobbered. Money is very important in politics but ideas are more important. Unless the Dims come up with ideas other than how much they hate Bush, Soros is just wasting his money. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/24 "2003-11-12T17:05:46Z")
Heheh … “Dimocrats”… good one, d00d. Should convince a few people, huh? Soros is playing by the rules. It only matters if the voters forget to think for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/25 "2003-11-12T17:25:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*So, anyone wanna wager how long it’ll be before the RNC starts its smear campaign against Mr. Soros? \*\* If they’re smart (which they are), it’ll start real soon. Maybe they can recylce some old Democratic smear adds (rich people buying influence) and just change the name. Of course, one also must ask what price Soros is planning to extract from his main benefactor (Dem presidential nominee). Deal with the devil, and you must pay the devil his due. Treasury Secretary? Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers? That might be a little too blatant. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/26 "2003-11-12T18:14:57Z")
I would take any moral or political pronouncements George Soros makes with a pickup truck sized grain of salt. He’s a successful currency speculator who many think virtually manipulated markets (and wreaked untold economic misery on many in the process) in order to have his currency bets come out right. It may all have been a perfectly legal part of being a good businessman, but Soros has no purchase to lecture _anyone_ on appropriate political or moral behavior. In addition, Soros has a long history of aggressively backing and funding political parties and regimes in other countries to further his own business ends. The fact that he has gathered his robes about him as he nears the end of his “career”, and wants to adopt a “statesman” profile is an amusing pose by this old pirate. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/27 "2003-11-12T18:35:34Z")
It could be very important. The Bushiviks are counting on money. The Dems will exhaust their fundraising possibilities fighting each other for the nomination. GeeDubya has no opposition and about $200 million. By no stretch of the imagination is the playing field level. So Soros putting his money in now is important: it saves some ammo for later. And its going to be crucial, the monetary advantage the Pubbies have borders on the obscene. Money talks. It also votes. If Mr. Soros money has a positive effect (i.e., removing a pack of jackals from the levers of power), then God Bless. It wouldn’t be the first time our Nation has owed a debt of gratitude to a scoundrel. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/28 "2003-11-12T19:45:28Z")
What exactly did Scaife get, I wonder? ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/29 "2003-11-12T20:13:34Z")
Good for Soros. I can think of worse ways to spend your money than on political speech. Of course, I’m one of those who opposed McCain-Feingold because I believe that people should be allowed to speak with their money. > [@](#): > > _rjung:_ > So, anyone wanna wager how long it’ll be before the RNC starts its smear campaign against Mr. Soros? Dang. In our office pool, I guessed it would be 15 posts before **rjung** started smearing Republicans. Looks like I guessed a little late. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/30 "2003-11-12T20:27:40Z")
Gee, **Age** , maybe you should have read the OP link. It’s right there: > [@](#): > > “It’s incredibly ironic that George Soros is trying to create a more open society by using an unregulated, under-the-radar-screen, shadowy, soft-money group to do it,” Republican National Committee spokeswoman Christine Iverson said. “George Soros has purchased the Democratic Party.” **Evil Captor** , Scaife got what he wanted - the deep damage to a man he hated, and the thwarting of much of the agenda he was twice elected to implement. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/31 "2003-11-12T20:30:19Z")
**AQA** - I missed the smear. Unless you’re suggesting **John Mace** is also smearing Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/32 "2003-11-12T22:29:40Z")
> [@](#): > > _ElvisL1ves:_ > Gee, **Age** , maybe you should have read the OP link. It’s right there: > > _RTFirefly:_ > **AQA** - I missed the smear. Unless you’re suggesting John Mace is also smearing Republicans. I was trying to point out the irony of **rjung** smearing Republicans by implying that they always resort to smear tactics. If **rjung** did not mean to imply that, then I’ve misread his post. Sorry if that was unclear. **John Mace** said Republicans _should_ smear Soros (which I disagree with), and not implying that Republicans always smear people. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/33 "2003-11-13T02:09:31Z")
**A.Q.A.** : I said they **would** , not that they **should**. Smart people or groups do not always do what they should. I was making a prediction about politicians, who seem very rarely to do what they should. Smearing of the opposition is S.O.P. these days, and it’s usually so blatant and easy to spot that I just ignore both sides when they do it. I’d like to see the two parties call a ceasefire on smear tactics. What do you think the odds of that are? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/34 "2003-11-13T02:19:28Z")
Zero. It’s pretty well proven that negative campaigns depress turnout. And on side or the other will benefit from that. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/35 "2003-11-13T03:00:49Z")
Soros is very respected worldwide… and has helped many causes in many places. Though the accusations of being a speculator (sucessful one too) have stuck. Curiously enough he doesn’t make a single mention of economic issues. Which he is an expert on. Which I feel does indicate a degree of real personal involvement in the issue. The money will help even things up… as will his open support. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/36 "2003-11-13T03:45:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Soros is very respected worldwide… The kiss of death in the US, I’m afraid.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/37 "2003-11-13T04:55:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > \*\*So, is the guy really Satan or were those countries financially fucked without the help of Soros and the other currency speculators? \*\* Countries were fucked. Soros was just one player. He really came to fame going after the Bank of England and the British pound. The media cast him as the man that broke the bank of england, and George fanned the media spotlight to get more investors into his hedge funds. Fact is, he was by far the biggest player in the Bank of England debacle. I worked for Swiss Bank Corp on the derivatives desk at the time, and our currency boys alone put at least 10 times the amount of money in to crush the BOE that Soro’s did with his paltry hedge fund. Swiss Bank was hardly alone as all the other players at the time lined up as well, because a truism of the market especially currencies is that no single player can stand against the market. The thing is investment banks avoid the spotlight like the roaches they are. You seriously think any of the big banks want to brag about how much money they made destroying the pound or the asian economies. No way bob. Only guys like Soro’s who have to market for his hedge fund would dare get in the media spotlight. Far far far too much credit has been given to George for the bank of england and asian crisis, both of which he was a small player and the same out come would have occured if he had not been involved. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/38 "2003-11-13T05:18:32Z")
That I believe. I work for a big bank as well, and the amounts that run through here on speculation are mind boggling. Even the biggest individual or fund, with the possible exceptions of Gates or Buffett, are pipsqueaks, mere footnotes on the balance sheets of everyone, in comparison, and in reality. Soros deserves congrats for being smart. In no way did he cause anything to happen that wasn’t going to happen anyway. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/39 "2003-11-13T05:33:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by China Guy \* > \*\* > > Fact is, he was by far the biggest player in the Bank of England debacle. I worked for Swiss Bank Corp on the derivatives desk at the time, and our currency boys alone put at least 10 times the amount of money in to crush the BOE that Soro’s did with his paltry hedge fund. \*\* SBC may very well have sold 10 times the amount but it was also buying 10 times the amount. I’m sure your cable dealer had a prop position but it wasn’t anywhere near what Soros or Paul Tudor Jones had. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728/40 "2003-11-13T07:53:34Z")
KidC, it was an outright bet and not a hedged play. Soro’s can not leverage up anywhere near what one of the big ibanks can leverage. Christ BOE was a case study when I did the O’Connor two week course as BOE had happened just a month or two earlier. We had the principal traders that put on the bet discuss it with us. This was way over any big risk limit that a prop trader or even prop desk could take. Approval went up to top management and Swiss Bank Corp was one of the big players and of the top 20, I’d wager a 90 delta that Soros wasn’t in the top 20. Let me correct the typo above, George Soros was no where near the biggest player in BOE or the Asian Crisis. I was deeply involved in the Asian Crisis. Gates or Buffet don’t have the types of credit lines that ING, UBS, MS, Citi can bring into play. Nor do any of the well known hedge funds including Soros. The media as usual got it way wrong – just like the regulators. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-soros-throws-down-against-bush/212728.md?page=3)